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Airtran MEC voted no

  • Thread starter Thread starter SWA717
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 108

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captain kiwi. are you saying that date of hire gives them more seniority. one of their guys said it results in a loss of some percentage. now i am confused more. and when you say a loss of all their seniority do you mean they should be stapled. is that still legal after american/twa

AIP caused me to go from 27% to 60% relative seniority. 33% loss.
DOH would cause me to go from 27% to 50% relative seniority. 23% loss.

In contrast TWA guy went from 20% to 80% - 60% loss.

There laws have been passed since to make sure that will never happen again.

What SWAPA offered us was only 27% better than the staple TWA guys got.
 
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SWA should buy Comair next week... DOH for all three airlines... That will change AAIs perspective and give them a similar kick in the teeth the SWA guys are getting... Seniority is forever, right? Laugh!
 
captain kiwi. are you saying that date of hire gives them more seniority. one of their guys said it results in a loss of some percentage. now i am confused more. and when you say a loss of all their seniority do you mean they should be stapled. is that still legal after american/twa

In a nutshell, there is a huge difference between a career at AT and a career at SW.

A look at the number of folks who've bailed from AT, to start at the bottom at SW and other places (a bunch), vs. The number of SW folks that have done the same (none) says it all.

Not to mention the several hundred active apps that SW had on file from AT folks on 9/27/10.
 
so what happens now. if both sides cant agree does the FAA decide? good luck with a government agency. if it can be screwed up im sure they will.
 
Maybe we should all step out of our respective shoes and look down at this from a different view. I am a Southwest pilot. I expect my union to fight for all the Southwest pilots and try to earn us the best possible integrated seniority list that they can get. If I were an Air Tran pilot, I would expect ALPA to do their best to do the same. This isn't personal...It is a business transaction that none of us had a say in. Now, we deal with it. When this is all done, I hope that my currently great airline remains that way and doesn't turn into a raging dumpster fire because all the work groups are pissed at each other. Bob and Gary created this mess and not the line pilot. Now, it seems very likely that we are headed towards allowing three judges to decide our future fates. That sucks plain and simple for both sides. None of us like to ride in the back, but it is what it is. If we remember who caused this mess when all is said and done, hopefully we will all be able to put this behind us an enjoy the rest of our long careers together.

Hopefully presented respectfully!
 
Maybe we should all step out of our respective shoes and look down at this from a different view. I am a Southwest pilot. I expect my union to fight for all the Southwest pilots and try to earn us the best possible integrated seniority list that they can get. If I were an Air Tran pilot, I would expect ALPA to do their best to do the same. This isn't personal...It is a business transaction that none of us had a say in. Now, we deal with it. When this is all done, I hope that my currently great airline remains that way and doesn't turn into a raging dumpster fire because all the work groups are pissed at each other. Bob and Gary created this mess and not the line pilot. Now, it seems very likely that we are headed towards allowing three judges to decide our future fates. That sucks plain and simple for both sides. None of us like to ride in the back, but it is what it is. If we remember who caused this mess when all is said and done, hopefully we will all be able to put this behind us an enjoy the rest of our long careers together.

Hopefully presented respectfully!

Well said!
 
Not ATA, Midwest. We were growing, they were struggling, and yes, we were gonna offer them relative seniority 300 of them 1500 of us integrated at fair ratio.

How about the deal you guys proposed to offer ATA (which was far closer to a "merger of equals" than this is)?

That's fair, right?
 
Not ATA, Midwest. We were growing, they were struggling, and yes, we were gonna offer them relative seniority 300 of them 1500 of us integrated at fair ratio.

How do you ratio a group if you are giving them Relative seniority? Isn't it either relative seniority or a ratio? If you give them relative seniority and then ratio them then are they really getting relative? Just a question.
 
How do you ratio a group if you are giving them Relative seniority? Isn't it either relative seniority or a ratio? If you give them relative seniority and then ratio them then are they really getting relative? Just a question.


I can't believe I have to explain this here.

Relative seniority is if you bid in top 25% at airline A, after airlines A and B combine you will still be relatively same seniority- 25% Your seniority NUMBER will go up, however your number will be able to buy you same 25% worth of perks.

Fair ratio is if you have airline A with 300 pilots and airline B with 1500 pilots, you integrate at 1:5 ratio. End result - everyone's relative position (relative seniority) remains the same.

Save all the argument on who deserves what for the arbitrator. Just answering to the ones with "just a question".
 

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