Airtran MEC voted no

[waveflyer]

It's simple math. Our pilot group is 25% the size of yours. The 32% removed from us equals 8% gain on your side.

Most of us lose here lose around 32%. The exception is the group at the bottom hired after 2008, who lose zero.

For example I go from being at 29% (from the top) to 61%, which puts me with guys hired almost 4 years after I was.



The protection in ATL only applied to the 40% of our pilot group that would not have been displaced. Even at 29% on our seniority list, I would not be able to hold ATL.

It is simple math Ty- bc we've been around for 40 years- our senior pilots were hired in the 70's- we have almost 1600 pilots hired by 1996- so if you got your wet dream of DOH those 1600 pilots hired before you existed represent 25% of Swapa pilots and over 20% of the combined 7800.
So what you really lost was 12%- and only in current terms- you're so much younger that as our pilots retire, that number gets smaller. as the smaller company, making less, screwed up mgmt- that wasn't a bad deal.
IMO. But then again, I work here and know how good I have it.

So it ideological- I think losing 4-6 years is about right- where you guys don't. Ok
But it's also mathematical- and that's where you guys have bought into a statistical lie- I don't see how you'll improve on the proposed list by much even at arby- so what you did was throw away all the protections and pay bumps, jeopardize the whole integration, for the possibility of 3-6% more than what was offered. That's not fantastic logic.
IMO

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

You were there and heard this?? Are you saying there are guys that are willing to fly as SWA Sr FOs vs AAI Jr CP??

Yes I was there, and yes there are guys like that.

Here's what you don't see. They are not just stapled to the captain list. They will be stapled when everyone of SWA FO's in-front of them upgrades. So they will be stapled in 10 years, providing that Alaska doesn't come along, in which case they will get re-stapled. So some would rather downgrade for a few years, but keep better seniority, so when they once again become a junior captain they have nowhere to go but up.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Nothing is guaranteed in this industry, not pay, not stability, not job security, nothing except your seniority number. SWAPA understands it as was obvious in the proposal. Today's vote shows you that ATN MEC understands that as well.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Not even your seniority number is guaranteed, not when you switch from one employer to another. B/M has tried to even that out some, but there are still no guarantees.

And that is where your greedy union folk overstepped. You're coming to my employer, not I to yours.

 

[Cruncher]

FBC:

It would take me 22 years to get it back. I'll be a 60 year old man at the same exact point of my career where I am now.

You are a mid - senior ATN Captain at 38? (If I am right, that's about the age of our mid - JUNIOR FOs). There is about an 8 - 10 year difference between the two seniority groups age at the same seniority position. Not only do we have a lot more "old" captains, but check out our FO ranks. No offense to my grey hair brothers

A RS SLI would be a complete utter disaster to the SWA pilots. Hands down. Obviously I don't know what Gary will do, but if RS is handed down, ... that will be a disaster for not only the SWA guys (at least initially) but for the ATN guys as well. We'll never become one. Sorry.

Even DOH sucks for SWA guys, especially considering the 100's of guys who left ATN for SWA, including Captains. Yes they are here and we know who they are. Add in the 100ish apps we had on file last Sept and the guys in the hiring pool (who were hired, but said "no thanks I'll take my chances through this SLI").

I not here threatening anyone, because I believe fighting for what you believe in, is the right thing to do, but don't let ALPA bite the hand too much. Some wounds don't heal so well.

Good luck to us all!

-C


PS Oh, when I was "wasting jet fuel" over Iraq, I was not only employing, but been on the wrong side of the business end, if you know what I mean. I'm here typing in a hotel room, some of my buds will never have the option, ever. Also, you do know a "tour" is 7 months right? And some of us have more than 2 tours, and more than just Iraq. Thanks.

 

[madjack]

"So some would rather downgrade for a few years, but keep better seniority, so when they once again become a junior captain they have nowhere to go but up."

Deal, can I quote you??

OBTW: I have heard the going in position of the ALPA/AAI MC was that "CPs keep their seats" non negotiable...and that had a lot to do with how the AIP was shaped...

 

[madjack]

"PS Oh, when I was "wasting jet fuel" over Iraq, I was not only employing, but been on the wrong side of the business end, if you know what I mean. I'm here typing in a hotel room, some of my buds will never have the option, ever. Also, you do know a "tour" is 7 months right? And some of us have more than 2 tours, and more than just Iraq. Thanks."

Well said and thank you Cruncher!!

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

we have almost 1600 pilots hired by 1996-
IMO

AirTran started in 1993, not 1996, that's 1000 people too many you put on the top. I'm sure if you would take them off we would be voting to approve this deal today.

 

[On Your Six]

Says the twit who has none.

It's called potential, something your spouse says you lack at night.


OYS

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

I am in late 30s, and you have captains my age. I almost always fly with guys who are older than me. And as we all know that after 9/11 SWA and AirTran were one of few airlines who were hiring so both hired older/more experienced pilots who would not go to either company if 9/11 didn't happen and United, Delta, American were hiring.

 

[madjack]

Our youngest CP is 38? Your point??