Airtran MEC voted no

[Fubijaakr]

Too bad your mec didn't learn anything from the regret felt by frontier and muse pilots.

Oh, yeah! Everyone should be GRATEFUL to be stapled to the bottom of the mighty SWA seniority list.

Way to vote down the $hit $andwidh that swa tried to serve up. Best of luck guys.

FI posters 1 - junior SWA f/os 0

The arbitrator will decide what is fair, primarily because your union couldn't offer something remotely reasonable.

FI posters 2 - junior SWA f/os 0

Most thought it was a bad deal, and they didn't like it. Get over it. 60% of their pilots go to the bottom 20% of the list? That doesn't sound acceptable, they weren't in BK like the Frontier pilots. GK wanted this deal, and the offer from SWAPA was weak. And, seniority is everything in this business.

FI posters 3 - junior SWA f/os 0

....a $500,000 loss to me. Bottom line you win big I lose because I made a poor decision to go to work for the most financially stable company in the industry with enough retirements to ensure I would get to the left seat.

me, Me, ME! WAAAAAAAHHHHHH!

I'll give you this much, at least you're honest about the real agenda here. You want to jump ahead of all the AAI F/Os senior to you at the Company you merged with. You might not want to post honestly here...it runs counter to canyon blue groupthink.

The money and better schedules will come later. Seniority is everything in this business.

FI posters 4 - junior SWA f/os 0

And you honestly think that 6000 ORIGINAL SWA pilots are going to just sit back and let an arbitrator decide our futures for us. Calls are already beeing made to USAPA for some legal advice.

YEAH! Now that's who you want advising you. When (not if) you lose the arbitration, you can dump SWAPA and join USAPA. Be a junior pickleballer! Awesome, Dude!

 

[Ty Webb]

Lear, GK never intended to run both companies seperately. How profitable Airtran is or was is no longer an argument. As to how long we remain seperate depends, but ultimately Airtran will disappear. As to with who and how remains to be seen. The only way Airtran remains seperate long-term is if SWA sells them off, but SWA is not going to keep two carriers. If SWA did sell Airtran, they would take anything and everything they needed (ATA style), and then sell them.

Boo! Cue in the scary music.

Yes, I'm sure the next step will be to sell off a profitable airline that they just paid billions for. . . . . . to a competitor.

 

[shootr]

FI posters 4 - junior SWA f/os 0

You do not understand the dynamics at work here if you think it's only the SWA FO's you're working against. I think the CA's were going to vote no in larger numbers than the FO's. We'll never know if SL9 would have passed but we do know that SWA FO's are not in this fight alone.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Boo! Cue in the scary music.

Yes, I'm sure the next step will be to sell off a profitable airline that they just paid billions for. . . . . . to a competitor.

after they rape and pillage it...yes. Has been done before, that's not what they want to do but they can. Point is there will not be two carriers under the SWA umbrella. We either intergrate, or liquidate there is no middle ground.

 

[Fubijaakr]

No, I'm just referring to the posters here.

 

[easydoesit]

SL8

Section 4
Seniority List Integration
4-A. Integrated Seniority List. The seniority lists of Southwest and AirTran Pilots will be
integrated pursuant to a Process Agreement to be negotiated separately between SWAPA,
AirTran Pilots (represented by ALPA), Southwest and AirTran.

 

[madjack]

Good news for two groups:

Attorneys: Boy at $1500/hr this is going to be huge for them

FI Posters: The entertainment value for the regulars (Lear, Ty, Fudgepacker, Wave, AT, me and the twenty other pilots that read this forum etc...) will be extended for at least 6 months...

 

[madjack]

Fudgepacker,

Who is senior to who, in your world can we jump ahead of the AAI CPs that we are senior to by DOH??

I'll give you this much, at least you're honest about the real agenda here. You want to jump ahead of all the AAI F/Os senior to you at the Company you merged with. You might not want to post honestly here...it runs counter to canyon blue groupthink.

 

[Ty Webb]

after they rape and pillage it...yes. Has been done before, that's not what they want to do but they can. Point is there will not be two carriers under the SWA umbrella. We either intergrate, or liquidate there is no middle ground.

You do realize that you are suggesting that Gary Kelly would stoop to Frank Lorenzo tactics . . . . .

Is your Daddy a SWA pilot? Does he know you're using his computer to insult his boss?

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

What we're talking about is an AT pilot leaving AT for SWA (which is something many AT pilots, hundreds, in fact, were trying to do), and then finding themselves junior to and receiving less longevity credit than the fellow AT pilot, who, by the way, also upgraded to captain due to higher AT attrition, and subsequently had his captain seat protected out of seniority.

N.

The upgrades at AT were generated by rapid growth, not captain attrition. The only captain attrition I've seen here since 9/11 was death, retirements and 1 went to Delta because he lived in Paris and wanted to overnight there.


I'm sure United guys knew their 5 year outlook in 1999. You are naive thinking that you will always be at the top of the food chain. I hope it's not the method to your culture - brain wash the employees that they're the best in the world and are invincible and in turn win their loyalty.

Here's our culture, we busted our balls to make a success out troubled airlines and took one sacrifice after another in a process. My goal was not to work for SWA, but (just like your early hired pilots) make this the place that could stand strong like SWA, or even better. Don't laugh, I'm sure your senior captains can tell you a story of how United and American pilots laughed at them in 1980s.

The way I see it, we were on the right track as shown by SWA's desire to acquire us. You noticed it wasn't Spirit they bought. We grew 3 times faster than SWA did in their first 17 years, as 11 year captain, I made 30% more than 11 year captain made at 17 year old SWA (adjusted for inflation). What we were lacking is a good management team. If you think that GK is your golden ticket to the limitless future, don't be so naive. Every successful business is just one bad CEO away from disaster. We were on track to become a success. SWA management knew it. That's why we're here today.

And now to SLI. For you guys to suggest that after 11 years of struggle and building this airline into what it has become my 20+% seniority worth nothing, is an insult. I am a mid to senior captain here who paid his dues every single block our of my time here, and you think that putting me behind a guy who did 2 tours wasting jet fuel in Iraq, sailed into SWA in '05 on wings of squadron buddies, and since enjoyed the worry-free career with fuel hedges and great management is fair? That gave me a 34% loss in seniority. It would take me 22 years to get it back. I'll be a 60 year old man at the same exact point of my career where I am now. Assuming that SWA will continue to dominate the world in 22 years.

While your junior captain who got hired at SWA same day I was hired at AirTran, (btw SWA was a gamble then, so HE just like me got lucky) will enjoy top of the list seniority till we both retire still 6% apart. 6% in 2040 means SWA would have to have 100 787s for me to be most junior captain on it, while he is in top 15% on it. We talking 2040! Shouldn't we be all equal SWA pilots by then? That was your offer that I, and many others begged my MEC to reject.
We carried our management on our backs every leg we flew, by saving gas that they failed to properly hedge so that they can come out smelling like a flower, and sell us for their bonuses.

You say, but look at all the pay you're getting. To me it's like cashing out your 401K to buy a Ferrari. Seniority is everything.