Airtran MEC voted no

[redflyer65]

It was mentioned many, many times that the first deal would most likely be the best deal. All the blowhards said who cares, we will just go to arbitration. The AAI MEC made a horrible decision for their members and then got steamrolled.

Now they're dumpster diving for ideas. Pathetic.

 

[MCDU]

They can thank former Alpa usair baker for that great move.

M

 

[Phlintstone]

When in the history of airlines has an MEC voted down a 40% pay raise, 10 year fence and CP seat protection. ALPA gave u unrealistic expectations and greed and arrogance (of the ATL disgruntled CPs mostly) did the rest, nice work!

While I agree that the MEC screwed the pooch royaly on voting it down, SL9 sucked in it own right. It would've been better for me in pay but I think there would be more pressure of furlough too...who knows.

You conviently left out that no OAT pilots would've been a 737CA until every single OSW pilot hired prior to 2006 had an opportunity to upgrade. That was a tough pill to swallow. Also the captain "protections" had so many holes in it that using the word "protections" was laughable. Lastly, the 717s departing would've taken away all those CA seats too.

Phred

 

[fletch717]

While I agree that the MEC screwed the pooch royaly on voting it down, SL9 sucked in it own right. It would've been better for me in pay but I think there would be more pressure of furlough too...who knows.

You conviently left out that no OAT pilots would've been a 737CA until every single OSW pilot hired prior to 2006 had an opportunity to upgrade. That was a tough pill to swallow. Also the captain "protections" had so many holes in it that using the word "protections" was laughable. Lastly, the 717s departing would've taken away all those CA seats too.

Phred

Funny how most RSW pilots forgot those gems in AIP 1.

 

[400ADude]

The African American Community is in an UPROAR!

 

[dicko]

What the mad trannys don't admit is that most if not all of their issues would not exist if sl9 had seen the light of day...quit blaming SWA/SWAPA and embrace reality.

SWAPA and SWA would have done exactly the same thing as they're doing now. We'd just be looking at a different MOU, that did exactly the same thing - Remove the Captain seats.

 

[Beechdriver32]

Cuts both ways.

AIP1 had offers of a prior 6 year AT Capt flying with a 10 year SWA FO. There were enough gems like that to frustrate everybody.

All I know is that on the SWA side there was nothing to be gained on a personal level. No pay raises (ALL SWA rates on 1 Apr 2012), no new bases (ATL was going to be all AT), seat protections for 10 years! We just had to count the number of younger guys being placed ahead of us on the List. The ONLY reason some were positive about the 'deal' was that it was good for the company. That simple concept seems foreign to some posters.

 

[redflyer65]

Cuts both ways.

AIP1 had offers of a prior 6 year AT Capt flying with a 10 year SWA FO. There were enough gems like that to frustrate everybody.

All I know is that on the SWA side there was nothing to be gained on a personal level. No pay raises (ALL SWA rates on 1 Apr 2012), no new bases (ATL was going to be all AT), seat protections for 10 years! We just had to count the number of younger guys being placed ahead of us on the List. The ONLY reason some were positive about the 'deal' was that it was good for the company. That simple concept seems foreign to some posters.

The Airtran guys love to complain about AIP1, but wasn't that better than what they wound up with?

Angrier about AIP1 or AIP2?

The first deal was easily going to be best. Maybe the MEC expectation was DOH, but the companies were far from being equal. Maybe they need more reality.

 

[vixin]

Also the captain "protections" had so many holes in it that using the word "protections" was laughable. Lastly, the 717s departing would've taken away all those CA seats too.

Who negotiated that fo rthe AAI side again?

 

[HowardBorden]

I would also like to point out the fact that Gary Kelly should not have signed an agreement that he never had any intention to follow.

When in the history of airline buyouts, mergers, acquisitions, bankruptcy etc has a CEO involved themselves in a seniority negotiation between two unions.

It seems that you forget that it was mutually agreed upon that this case would NOT go to arbitration in the process agreement, so in actuality he followed what was agreed upon exactly:

"WHEREAS, Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (“SWAPA”), the Air Line Pilots Association (“ALPA”), Southwest and AirTran desire to utilize an alternative process as set forth in this Agreement for the creation of an Integrated Master Seniority List."

It also seems that you have forgotten that you invited the CEO to the negotiations in the Process Agreement:

"SWAPA (acting on behalf of the pilots in the service of Southwest Airlines), ALPA (acting on behalf of the pilots in the service of AirTran), and their respective Seniority Merger Committees (the “Merger Committees”) as duly created and authorized by SWAPA and ALPA respectively (each such Merger Committee, SWAPA, ALPA and the Companies is a “Party” under this Agreement)

 

[madjack]

Voting no on SL9 has only helped SWA (at the expense of the AAI pilots)...it saved the company millions in salary, and facilitated the unloading of the 717 to DL...The AT MEC did SWA mgmt/stockholders a huge favor...get mad at SWA all you want (your parent company benefiting from near sighted goals on the part of labor is right out of the play book) but remember your neighborhood AT/ALPA MEC was complicit. While your looking for a scapegoat for your current situation don't forget to blame your previous mgmt for courting SWA for a buyout.

 

[canyonblue]

I think most every AT pilot would have accepted any outcome from a Neutral party.

Somehow I doubt that.

 

[JT12345]

Voting no on SL9 has only helped SWA (at the expense of the AAI pilots)...it saved the company millions in salary, and facilitated the unloading of the 717 to DL...The AT MEC did SWA mgmt/stockholders a huge favor...get mad at SWA all you want (your parent company benefiting from near sighted goals on the part of labor is right out of the play book) but remember your neighborhood AT/ALPA MEC was complicit. While your looking for a scapegoat for your current situation don't forget to blame your previous mgmt for courting SWA for a buyout.

What the hell would AAI MEC voting yes do? I really think it might not have passed on the SWAPA side. When the AAI mechanics voted yes and the SWA mechanics voted no our mechanics had to give up even more too. And I can only imagine the hate if the pilot group itself voted. Got to vote and voted no. I am sure that would have been the excuse for not even a second deal.

And why were the threats only made more real after the MEC vote and not before it?

Are you telling me GK did not know about AC's letter to the AAI group about no threats on July 14th? GK could have come out after that letter from our ATL rep with his threats to influence the vote on the first deal. But there was only silence. And the first deal had a lot of bad language for FOs upgrading on the AAI side. We would have had to wait for every SWA FO on the list to upgrade before us circumventing seniority. And that was worth waiting a few years for the money.

STOP saying we get a 40% raise because the majority of us will see such large hits in seniority by going from CA to FO or from lineholder to reserve that the pay increase is only 10% maybe 20% max for a few. It will be years maybe a decade before we see the 40% you are bragging about.

And I knew some braggers once too? Pilots at United and Delta, but they are not bragging now!

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Nice Job, JT.

Don't pay too much attention to WackyJack . . . every now and then, she goes off her meds and the result is always some sort of rant about ALPA. Sounds like a guilty conscience talking . . . . :laugh:

Nice response, though, for those few folks who might give a damn about how their future co-workers feel.

 

[redflyer65]

What the hell would AAI MEC voting yes do? I really think it might not have passed on the SWAPA side. When the AAI mechanics voted yes and the SWA mechanics voted no our mechanics had to give up even more too. And I can only imagine the hate if the pilot group itself voted. Got to vote and voted no. I am sure that would have been the excuse for not even a second deal.

And why were the threats only made more real after the MEC vote and not before it?

Are you telling me GK did not know about AC's letter to the AAI group about no threats on July 14th? GK could have come out after that letter from our ATL rep with his threats to influence the vote on the first deal. But there was only silence. And the first deal had a lot of bad language for FOs upgrading on the AAI side. We would have had to wait for every SWA FO on the list to upgrade before us circumventing seniority. And that was worth waiting a few years for the money.

STOP saying we get a 40% raise because the majority of us will see such large hits in seniority by going from CA to FO or from lineholder to reserve that the pay increase is only 10% maybe 20% max for a few. It will be years maybe a decade before we see the 40% you are bragging about.

And I knew some braggers once too? Pilots at United and Delta, but they are not bragging now!

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I disagree.

You guys got an IMMEDIATE payraise when the SW purchase was announced. But you guys like to forget that small detail. With your previous management, you could still be on those old, underpaid Airtran rates. Would you still be happy with that?

Did Gary have an idea of what he might do next when the MEC voted it down? Maybe. When you negotiate for a house, do you tell the agent what your next move will be if they don't take the first deal? That's the reality of what your saying. Does that make any sense?

But the deal was the deal. You remember....negotiated by both NC groups. It was a stand alone deal that Gary threw alot of money at. He put everything he had into deal one. The MEC decided the deal wasn't good enough or that the AAI NC went rogue. Whatever. The AAI pilots should have had a vote in their future. That rug was pulled out from under them. Very sad.