Airtran MEC voted no

[canyonblue]

Obviously, any arbitration award is going to be less favorable to them.........

Sooo clueless, sooo sad.

 

[redflyer65]

You may not call it a corner, but SWAPA has clearly left itself no good options. Having promised a staple that they can't deliver, they now have an angry mob of SWA pilots to deal with.

Nindiri,

What are you smoking dude. SWAPA never promised anyone a staple, or any such terms....plain and simple. Please stick with the facts.

RF

 

[Nindiri]

Yes, they definitely promised a staple, or near staple. SWA pilots have made that clear on this board.

Why did SWAPA make such a reckless promise?

 

[redflyer65]

Lear,

I'm confused about the timeline that Fly By discusses. He states that the MC was headed out of Dallas when called by Gary Kelly to discuss other options.

I thought the 'Gary Kelly' meeting was pushed back a week from the original date. How could the MC be held hostage in Dallas when this meeting was known to ALL parties? Are we talking about two meetings?

RF

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

No sadly he. Is part of there MEC/ NC

Sad to see what he is doing to a lot of families.

Of course I'm not on MEC or MC. Only your leaders fire off statements in the heat of moment that later will be used against them. Like SC's e-mail that has 2 such points.
1. We were gonna buy their seniority.
2. We will abide by Process Agreement.

As for Rob Zerbe, out 5 of his bullet points only 1 is a fact that I also posted....no lawyers were in the room. The rest 4 about good faith, and MEC screwing us, are just his perception - not facts.

BTW no secret negotiation table information here, just a time line of how events unfolded. (public record)

To Rob: Are you denying the fact that our MC walked out of negotiations with intent to take this to the next step - Mediation? And if Gary didn't call them back there would no deal to argue about now. Doesn't seem like SWAPA deserves a whole lot of credit for negotiating in "good faith."

 

[Tripower455]

Yes, they definitely promised a staple, or near staple. SWA pilots have made that clear on this board.

Why did SWAPA make such a reckless promise?

SWAPA never promised us a staple, in fact, they didn't even try to get one.

 

[redflyer65]

Yes, they definitely promised a staple, or near staple. SWA pilots have made that clear on this board.

Why did SWAPA make such a reckless promise?

Where did they see that? I've kept myself pretty informed on this stuff and I haven't seen or heard any of it. As a matter of fact they said that a staple wouldn't happen. There goal was no SWAPA pilot harmed, and that was basically meant to compensate for the younger AAI pilots with regard to upgrade.

The disconnect with the SW pilots came in the way the AIP looked. The SWAPA guys really didn't telegraph anything about how this proposal would be structured. That's it.

RF

 

[AlbieF15]

I'm completely on the sidelines on this whole issue, but with some friends as both places as I listen here is what I hear:

1. Airtran pilots in general do not believe the gain in pay and benefits offset the drop in relative seniority

2. SWA pilots feel that the pay bump and chance to be in a better culture more than
offsets any seniority loss

3. Airtran pilots believe they won't do "much if any worse..." in an arbitration

4. SWA pilots believe the CEO may not integrate the carrier as quickly as the Airtran guys think will happen, if at all, and do not think arbitration will hurt them.

5. If the arbitration list isn't good, SWA pilots believe the company will simply keep AirTran as a separate entity verses risking upsetting the current labor climate.

Guys--am I missing anything?

Outside looking in, what I see is a bunch of SWA pilots who are convinced their CEO won't "sell them out" and accept a merger if it penalizes too many of the SWA faithful. The argument I keep hearing is "dad isn't going to like this..." and "dad won't let this happen..."

I have zero idea what will happen, and I sure wish all of you the best of luck on the backside of this. But it sure seems to me every SWA guy saying "it ain't gonna happen..." is betting GK is going to do all he can to keep his pilots happy. The million dollar question is will he? In 1988, the old FedEx Flight Crew Handbook indicated if FedEx bought another company ALL those pilots would be stapled. When the 1989 Flying Tigers purchase/merger occurred, FedEx merged the group with an arbitrator by the name of Nicolau. (Yes...the same guy...) FedEx pilots whined, complained, sued, and eventually even unionized a few years after the merger, something many original Purple pilots said would never happen. After losing faith that Fred Smith "had their backs...", a union suddenly didn't seem so bad.

I have no idea what GK will do, but if you REALLY want to see bitterness, watch what happens if GK breaks the faith with his own team. The wrath SWA has towards any outsiders will spread to not only outsiders but some of their own management. If I were a SWAPA leader, I'd be reminding management daily they've got one shot to "do the right thing...".

Can't understand anyone's complaint with ALPA, its the Airtran MEC and their pilots that are making the decisions here. ALPA has nothing to gain poking SWAPA. In fact, considering the success Lee Moak's ALPA MEC at Delta had with their merger with NWA, I'd be working hard to emulate what they did (buy labor peace with extra money for EVERYONE).

Garry Kelly is the key to this whole thing. I hope he is as loyal to you guys as you are to him. Time is going to tell....

 

[redflyer65]

Well stated Albie, and right on point. I'll add..

Mr Kelly is most likely weighing his options not only regarding this pilot integration, but looking down the road to every other work group here. This is just the tip of the spear with regards to the rest of the labor groups. To be honest, it sets the tone. And the tone doesn't look very good at this point.

RF

 

[Nindiri]

Where did they see that? I've kept myself pretty informed on this stuff and I haven't seen or heard any of it. As a matter of fact they said that a staple wouldn't happen. There goal was no SWAPA pilot harmed, and that was basically meant to compensate for the younger AAI pilots with regard to upgrade.

The disconnect with the SW pilots came in the way the AIP looked. The SWAPA guys really didn't telegraph anything about how this proposal would be structured. That's it.

RF

Yes, they definitely promised a staple or near staple. SWA pilots on here like Willie Nelson, Bravodude, the guy with the Einstein avatar whatever his name was, and others have confirmed numerous times here that their friends and connections in SWAPA have assured them of a staple. And they've made it clear here that they expect this promise to be kept; just a day ago, Bravodude promised to burn the house down if he didn't get his way.

This is not a good situation for SWAPA, or for anyone else involved.

 

[canyonblue]

Can't understand anyone's complaint with ALPA....

Albie, first off, nice post. Second, as a former ALPA member who had no problem with the Union, I find ALPA to be a hated entity at SWA. And this is not a new revelation, it has been that way here forever. If you want an idea of just how much the majority of pilots dislike ALPA, just insert HITLER in place of ALPA in any sentence.

 

[scoreboardII]

This is just the tip of the spear with regards to the rest of the labor groups. To be honest, it sets the tone. And the tone doesn't look very good at this point.

RF

And the pilots at SWA are the "easy ones" to get a deal from, if this fails in a negotiated settlement, the rest of the unions burn this deal to the ground.

Albie, spot on, GK has the ball, lets see what the QB does with it.

 

[GuppyWN]

Of course I'm not on MEC or MC. Only your leaders fire off statements in the heat of moment that later will be used against them. Like SC's e-mail that has 2 such points.
1. We were gonna buy their seniority.
2. We will abide by Process Agreement.

1. Your MC already agreed that your seniority had a monetary value.
2. Mediation is scheduled for next month.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

Yes, they definitely promised a staple or near staple. SWA pilots on here like Willie Nelson, Bravodude, the guy with the Einstein avatar whatever his name was, and others have confirmed numerous times here that their friends and connections in SWAPA have assured them of a staple. And they've made it clear here that they expect this promise to be kept; just a day ago, Bravodude promised to burn the house down if he didn't get his way.

This is not a good situation for SWAPA, or for anyone else involved.

Just so we are clear. I am fine with a staple.

Gup

 

[Fly4$]

I think the question should be asked, how will SWA and AT. React. Why would you assume only SWA pilots will have a response ?


I believe the answer lies ,of what alpa has put out to the AT pilots.[/QUOTE]

99% of us would accept the ruling and happily move on. Still not sure what SWAPA is so upset about. I wasn't under the impression the negotiated deal was very popular. I think both sides may come out better in arbitration or perhaps mediation. It will be simpler, and decided by a neutral party.