Airtran MEC voted no

[MILF Hunter]

According to our MC, SWAPA would not budge on the list and our guys walked out of negotiations. They were heading home as GK called them in to see if there is anything could be done to fix it. They respectfully agreed to try. He proposed his protections and restrictions. However our MC kept referencing to the bad list. GK looked at SWAPA. They moved a few numbers and said it was final. GK tried to make things work for both parties. Our MC felt that in a standstill with SWAPA and with GK's good efforts this would be the absolute best that could ever be negotiated at the table.

The last thing our MEC knew about the status of negotiations was that the MC walked out and was on the way home. The "emergency" meeting with GK was not communicated to MEC until after the fact due to timing and the nature of talks. The MC was cornered into agreeing to the proposal with no attorneys present, or MEC approval. (rest assured that will never be allowed again)

This started a disconnect between MC and MEC. Pilots never gave a bird to GK, in fact the opposite, we appreciate his effort to fix the list with protections.

It took MEC longer than SWAPA to vote, because while SL9 provided SWAPA with necessary adjustments to their CBA, the equivalent of SL9 still had to be drafted and approved by legal on our side, for our CBA along with other transitional documents that SWAPA didn't have to have to vote.

AirTran pilots were outraged with SWAPA's refusal to negotiate a fair list. The list is what this thing was about. The list you offered, not GK. He wasn't just helping us, he was helping you, because he knows you'll get crushed in arbitration. Now he can't say that he didn't try.

Don't tell me GK is mad at us... He knows the whole story, not just the propaganda SWAPA put out for you to cover up how THEY caused you to go to arbitration.

"According to our MC...."

Did your MC also tell you about a great deal on some ocean front property in...well you know?

If you believed your MC when they told you Gary was up late on a Friday night, trying to create protections from the list your MC negotiated, I might have a bridge to sell you as well.

 

[scoreboardII]

According to our MC, SWAPA would not budge on the list and our guys walked out of negotiations. They were heading home as GK called them in to see if there is anything could be done to fix it. They respectfully agreed to try. He proposed his protections and restrictions. However our MC kept referencing to the bad list. GK looked at SWAPA. They moved a few numbers and said it was final. GK tried to make things work for both parties. Our MC felt that in a standstill with SWAPA and with GK's good efforts this would be the absolute best that could ever be negotiated at the table.

The last thing our MEC knew about the status of negotiations was that the MC walked out and was on the way home. The "emergency" meeting with GK was not communicated to MEC until after the fact due to timing and the nature of talks. The MC was cornered into agreeing to the proposal with no attorneys present, or MEC approval. (rest assured that will never be allowed again)

This started a disconnect between MC and MEC. Pilots never gave a bird to GK, in fact the opposite, we appreciate his effort to fix the list with protections.

It took MEC longer than SWAPA to vote, because while SL9 provided SWAPA with necessary adjustments to their CBA, the equivalent of SL9 still had to be drafted and approved by legal on our side, for our CBA along with other transitional documents that SWAPA didn't have to have to vote.

AirTran pilots were outraged with SWAPA's refusal to negotiate a fair list. The list is what this thing was about. The list you offered, not GK. He wasn't just helping us, he was helping you, because he knows you'll get crushed in arbitration. Now he can't say that he didn't try.

Don't tell me GK is mad at us... He knows the whole story, not just the propaganda SWAPA put out for you to cover up how THEY caused you to go to arbitration.

Once again, proven a liar, nice work, you guys should try some honesty once in awhile. Good for the soul, like chicken soup.

 

[MILF Hunter]

All I've heard so far is, "Our MC didn't have clear instructions", "Our MC were trapped in negotiations", "Our MC lacked oversight", "Our MC negotiated things they were permitted to", "The attorney's couldn't be reached", blah, blah, blah.

What the heck did your MC think they were doing in Dallas. Can your MEC and MC not recognize a negotiation when its happening?

Like it or not, all parties came to an agreement that your MC supported and was prepared to present to your membership. Y'all couldn't stomach the deal, and had it killed. GK shouldn't be expected to see this any other way because this is exactly what happened.

To your trannies that wanted the chance to vote YES and see this deal passed, they should have spoken as loud as the ones that begged to MEC to kill the deal.

Your MC has four members, and your MEC eight, but clearly the decision to kill this deal was made by hundreds. Stop whining, stop making exuses and man up to the fact that y'all threw this back in GK's face.

You wanted it, now you got it! My guess is that you will not want what coms next!

 

[slaquer5]

Not sure what you're hearing about arbitration from SWAPA, but here's what Dana Eischen wrote. He was on the board of this decision at DAL/NWA. He will be our lead arbitrator.
'We have attempted, at all times, to recognize reasonable expectations of both parties while, in all instances, rejecting proposals that, however facially logical, resulted in untenable windfalls.'
'The resulting list neither realizes nor maintains each and every career expectations, nor could it do so. No recitation of career expectations ever includes a merger, and no merger can leave all hopes and plans unaffected. The most that can be said, and it can be said with some assurance in this case, is that the merger of these particular companies will result in a uniquely powerful entity, by virtue of the contributions of both carriers, that is capable of better withstanding the substantial challenges of the current environment than if the Companies had chose to go it alone.'

So since your part of the AT MEC or NC, why don't you atlest have the ballz to tell us your name, Rob Zerbe has. It is sad that ALPA could care less for the well-being of the AT pilots.

 

[Nindiri]

Just out of curiosity, how will SWA pilots react when this mess is all over?

Obviously, the likely outcome is arbitration. Both sides will complain, but in the end we will integrate and move on. How will SWA guys respond? Will we all shake hands and move on, or will some of these guys hold a serious grudge?

 

[slaquer5]

Just out of curiosity, how will SWA pilots react when this mess is all over?

Obviously, the likely outcome is arbitration. Both sides will complain, but in the end we will integrate and move on. How will SWA guys respond? Will we all shake hands and move on, or will some of these guys hold a serious grudge?

I think the question should be asked, how will SWA and AT. React. Why would you assume only SWA pilots will have a response ?


I believe the answer lies ,of what alpa has put out to the AT pilots.

 

[BlueBlood]

From what I am hearing I can tell you that things are going to get interesting. My buds (SWA dudes) are telling me that if AirTran pilots get the money and the seniority life is going to suck. SWA will do fine but the pilots will have their pound of flesh on way or another. Didn't the AirTran guys just get a memo from the Kraut talking about leaves of absence and reduced flying? You guys just finished recalling furloughees for Pete's sake and this deal wasn't good enough for the angry 7 (not my term, my buddy at AAI told me that one).

My uneducated guess is that this will be an unfortunate chapter for the AirTran pilots. 1700 suffer because 7 decided that the deal wasn't good enough they knew would pass their membership. What they did is listen to the angry mob. Clever if you ask me. Take forever to get to the point of deciding and al the while get your rabble educated on the deal and they are the main participants at the MEC meeting. Self select bias, my friends. The angry showed up and therefore, the MEC felt that was the sentiment of the group, or at least that's the excuse they could use for not sending this deal to them. It looks like, by having open sessions and letting your pilots attend the meeting that you could say "look, this was what the pilots wanted" and wash your hands. The funny thing is, I don't think getting another bite is in the cards. If Gary gives you any more, he would be foolish. He alienates his pilots and shows 1700 new members of the family that he can be bullied in negotiations. No soup for you my friends.

 

[Sacha]

So since your part of the AT MEC or NC, why don't you atlest have the ballz to tell us your name, Rob Zerbe has. It is sad that ALPA could care less for the well-being of the AT pilots.

You are kidding right? Please tell me that this ******************************-bag isn't part of their NC or MEC. That might explain a few things but it would be scary for the Airtran guys none the less........No....No way. I guess I missed the sarcasm.

 

[Nindiri]

I think the question should be asked, how will SWA and AT. React. Why would you assume only SWA pilots will have a response ?


I believe the answer lies ,of what alpa has put out to the AT pilots.

No, I believe the real question is how will SWA pilots react to the arbitration award. The AT pilots' reaction is pretty obvious; they have already said they will accept it, whatever the outcome. And that will be the end of it.

But what about the SWA pilots? How will they respond to an arbitration award and subsequent integration that they obviously aren't going to like? Will they be ready to move on, or will they be bitter and try to create a hostile work environment for their new coworkers? In fairness to SWA, most of the guys I've met in person have been quite reasonable, but let's face it, there are a lot of angry SWA guys here on this board threatening to hold a serious grudge. Just look at the post below your own, with it's threats to carry the fight on indefinitely in the cockpit. Does this represent the views of a majority of SWA pilots, or just an angry few?

 

[USAFftrplt]

One thing is for sure, The Ball is in Motion!

 

[Lowrider717]

I think the question should be asked, how will SWA and AT. React. Why would you assume only SWA pilots will have a response ?


I believe the answer lies ,of what alpa has put out to the AT pilots.

"We are going to follow the Process Agreement because that’s what we do; we honor our agreements. " -Steve Chase

...and as an AirTran Pilot, I'm prepared to honor a decision handed down by an arby, "because that's what we do; we honor our agreements."

I was going to say "can't wait to get this behind us, so we can focus on the future" but I lament that they way we handle this NOW portends HOW we will handle the future! Please let us be honorable, and civil NOW, so we can achieve the same in the future, together!

 

[vv100]

No, I believe the real question is how will SWA pilots react to the arbitration award. The AT pilots' reaction is pretty obvious; they have already said they will accept it, whatever the outcome. And that will be the end of it.

But what about the SWA pilots? How will they respond to an arbitration award and subsequent integration that they obviously aren't going to like? Will they be ready to move on, or will they be bitter and try to create a hostile work environment for their new coworkers? In fairness to SWA, most of the guys I've met in person have been quite reasonable, but let's face it, there are a lot of angry SWA guys here on this board threatening to hold a serious grudge. Just look at the post below your own, with it's threats to carry the fight on indefinitely in the cockpit. Does this represent the views of a majority of SWA pilots, or just an angry few?

It will be a $hitstorm of epic proportions.
Bet on it.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lowrider717;2199126 I lament that they way we handle this NOW portends HOW we will handle the future!

First impressions are hard to overcome, your side has a huge hole to dig out of, but we are a forgiving bunch.

So, whats your side going to do?

 

[GuppyWN]

No, I believe the real question is how will SWA pilots react to the arbitration award. The AT pilots' reaction is pretty obvious; they have already said they will accept it, whatever the outcome. And that will be the end of it.

Is that YOUR position or that of ALPA?

Gup

 

[Nindiri]

Is that YOUR position or that of ALPA?

Gup

AT pilots would certainly have no reason to be angry after a favorable arbitration award.

Now SWA pilots clearly have a bigger problem on their hands, having backed themselves into this unfortunate corner. Obviously, any arbitration award is going to be less favorable to them, so the question is how will they react as the inevitable integration continues and they have to fly with their new coworkers. Are they willing to shake hands and move on, or will they poison the culture and work environment, as some of them have threatened on this board?