Air Force to UAL New Hire

[imacdog]

No moron, there needs to be a level of competency.

For example, flying into Europe last week the civilian captain is verbally going over the missed approach procedures, except he was out of order so I am like no no no (so was the IRO) it's like this. WTF

My point is mil guys will know memory items and limits at the very least.

Also why do you civilians fall asleep so fast?

You don't know jack ******************** about CRM so don't try to preach to me.

On an entirely unrelated note that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your posts in this thread, does your carrier happen to have a bid avoidance list for its pilots to use?

 

[sat74]

No moron, there needs to be a level of competency.

For example, flying into Europe last week the civilian captain is verbally going over the missed approach procedures, except he was out of order so I am like no no no (so was the IRO) it's like this. WTF

My point is mil guys will know memory items and limits at the very least.

Also why do you civilians fall asleep so fast?

You don't know jack ******************** about CRM so don't try to preach to me.

Your CRM skills are amazing! Can you teach us more?

 

[ROSWELL41]

The military guys are good at networking and helping each other get jobs. That is a skill that more civilians need to work on. I'll give them that. The rest of this stuff is nonsense.

 

[skywiz]

The military guys are good at networking and helping each other get jobs. That is a skill that more civilians need to work on. I'll give them that. The rest of this stuff is nonsense.

One aspect of military pilots that I think is overlooked here is leadership experience. Military pilots don't just fly planes. They manage large groups of people, serve as operations officers, manage squadron safety programs, etc. Many have masters degrees. Airlines like Dal, UA, AA/US like to see a well rounded individual and a military aviator fits that description well. There is more to military aviation than just flying a plane.

 

[sat74]

One aspect of military pilots that I think is overlooked here is leadership experience. Military pilots don't just fly planes. They manage large groups of people, serve as operations officers, manage squadron safety programs, etc. Many have masters degrees. Airlines like Dal, UA, AA/US like to see a well rounded individual and a military aviator fits that description well. There is more to military aviation than just flying a plane.

Because once you get to the right seat of a major airline you will be using those skills as you check the flight plan, do your flows, do the walk around, order your coffee from the stews.... And once you get to the left seat, all you will want to do is go to work, fly, and go home. Nothing more. Period.

 

[skywiz]

Because once you get to the right seat of a major airline you will be using those skills as you check the flight plan, do your flows, do the walk around, order your coffee from the stews.... And once you get to the left seat, all you will want to do is go to work, fly, and go home. Nothing more. Period.[/QUOTE

I don't disagree with you. I have spoken to some recruiters for major airlines and they have stated that a well rounded person is highly desired in today's major airline pilot market. I didn't make this up. Its what I have heard and been told. I imagine things will change with time.

 

[SIG600]

Because once you get to the right seat of a major airline you will be using those skills as you check the flight plan, do your flows, do the walk around, order your coffee from the stews.... And once you get to the left seat, all you will want to do is go to work, fly, and go home. Nothing more. Period.

Speak for yourself.

 

[dicko]

You guys have it all wrong.....

THE reason SW (in particular) prefer to hire mostly military pilots has nothing to do with flying ability. It's because many of them question or even hate the idea of a "union", and will vote for whatever the company wants, even if it's to the detriment of labor. They are a known quantity, IE: "SIR,YES SIR", loyal to "The Borg" types, and management loves them. This worked fine in the pre GK, "we're all in this together" days, but I'm afraid that they're gonna get a lesson in Labor 101 that they won't soon forget, but then it'll be too late.

It's even better when these guys get elected to "union" positions (the "need to lead" is strong in many of them), and they have no clue that they AREN'T (or shouldn't be) an arm of management. The list of former SWApA folks now working for the G.O. is long and distinguished.

Many ex military are staunchly non yes men and are creative thinkers. They do exist.

The problem is perhaps the particular type of military pilot that SWA chooses. Of course the tools like to hire their fellow tools. Same with 'yes men'. Its like inbreeding - its a lot of fun, but there are sound reasons for it being out of fashion.

The pilots that you describe in your post are essential for the way the company is changing. It's hardly surprising considering the companies image. It's even less surprising when you look at what's happening with labor relations at this time.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Why is the failure rate so much higher then for civilian background guys compared to military background guys. BTW. I have flown with 19000 hour pilot I would not trust my family with

Then don't take your family flying with you....

 

[pilotyip]

Then don't take your family flying with you....

They don't need to worry I am one of those low time guys at 14,000 hours

 

[user912]

Yep, not incapable

Unqualified.

Refute it if you don't like it- but it is the truth. We don't drop bombs at 121 carriers.
I'm sure it was a hell of an accomplishment, and fun, and lots of respectable things- but it relates to airline flying about as well as a floatplane

Unqualified but not Incapable
That should be the military only pilot's motto and it ain't necessarily a bad thing either. UAL's 400hr wonders back in the day were also Unqualified but not Incapable. As are many hired to fill quotas (nearly all I've flown with have been motivated and capable) not to mention the lucky Riddle guy here and there who got an internship, or the low time fella whose uncle was the CP. Having the right connections makes up for qualifications.

It's just the dishonesty of the whole thing that frustrates the RJ Captains and who can blame them?

 

[Continental]

I thought it was all about the hat. Military guys used to wearing a hat. Plus they keep their hair short so the hat fits.

Rj guys don't like to wear the hat. Messes up the frosted tips or disheveled look that took 30 minutes to create.

 

[Tripower455]

Many ex military are staunchly non yes men and are creative thinkers. They do exist.

Which is why I used the word "many".

The problem is perhaps the particular type of military pilot that SWA chooses. Of course the tools like to hire their fellow tools. Same with 'yes men'. Its like inbreeding - its a lot of fun, but there are sound reasons for it being out of fashion.

This is also true with the Kivilians SW hires. I am constantly amazed at the resistance to siding with labor a lot of my co workers display.

The pilots that you describe in your post are essential for the way the company is changing. It's hardly surprising considering the companies image. It's even less surprising when you look at what's happening with labor relations at this time.

There hasn't been a change in the labor, but management. Before, we were treated pretty well, overall, so there wasn't a great need for unity per se and most folks were happy. Now that this is changing, more folks are starting to realize that we're on a rudderless ship, but I'd be surprised if it was 50% of them, at least in the pilot group. Another few years of management screwing this place up by the numbers and we'll have much better unity, which is exactly what and how I feared it would happen around here.

 

[waveflyer]

Unqualified but not Incapable
That should be the military only pilot's motto and it ain't necessarily a bad thing either. UAL's 400hr wonders back in the day were also Unqualified but not Incapable. As are many hired to fill quotas (nearly all I've flown with have been motivated and capable) not to mention the lucky Riddle guy here and there who got an internship, or the low time fella whose uncle was the CP. Having the right connections makes up for qualifications.

It's just the dishonesty of the whole thing that frustrates the RJ Captains and who can blame them?

Problem is, I was just as "unqualified" but capable at 2000 hours just like the mil guys- with few type ratings and years of 121 under my belt-
Nobody would accept a civilian like that- but every class has a military pilot with that time and no 121 experience and it's accepted as normal.
Yet my background isn't considered competitive and qualified until they have 6-8000 hours??

The problem is the unequal hookup for one of the best jobs in America

And you're right, it's dishonest

 

[Turtle21]

Problem is, I was just as "unqualified" but capable at 2000 hours just like the mil guys- with few type ratings and years of 121 under my belt-

Nobody would accept a civilian like that- but every class has a military pilot with that time and no 121 experience and it's accepted as normal.

Yet my background isn't considered competitive and qualified until they have 6-8000 hours??



The problem is the unequal hookup for one of the best jobs in America



And you're right, it's dishonest

Mil pilots get far fewer hours per year. Typical civilian pilots start at the majors five to ten years younger than a Mil pilot. But who cares. It is what it is, and with my lobotomy I don't have the brain capacity anymore to process an entertaining protest.