Air Force to UAL New Hire

[waveflyer]

I think most civilian guys have more time hand flying a C172 than military guys have total time. So, if hand flying is where it is at I think you need to try again.

Yep, when I only had 1900 time, I was told I needed jet and glass and autopilot experience- now this moron is trying to tell us that military hand flying experience is what makes them get jobs...???

Please-
Excuses-

You guys have a good old boy club - nothing more. That's why you get jobs.
Just be honest.

 

[waveflyer]

You sound like a jilted lover with a tiny wang. But the Camaro and mirrored aviator glasses make you look cool!

Sounds like SWA is not exactly what you've been advertising. I mean, you despise and loathe an awful lot of your captains and fellow FOs for their "unfair" advantage in life. Those free-loading SOBs who never earned anything! How do you go to work day in and day out?

Id say you're wrong and trying to make this about me and ego and anything but the clear discrimination against civilian pilots in the hiring process.

Swa put a class through with 26 out of 30 having military backgrounds.

Do you think that's a correct ratio? A fair ratio?

Honest question

 

[Mamma]

Id say you're wrong and trying to make this about me and ego and anything but the clear discrimination against civilian pilots in the hiring process.

Swa put a class through with 26 out of 30 having military backgrounds.

Do you think that's a correct ratio? A fair ratio?

Honest question

Funny thing is a agree with you that the ratio appears unfair. What I did not agree with is you making it personal and insulting military guys. They didn't hire themselves. Your boss made the decision to recruit and hire them. Many of these guys you disparage are excellent pilots and good people. Don't blame them for getting the job. Blame your boss.

 

[waveflyer]

I am-
And I don't blame them for aggressively pursuing any opportunity.
But why is it unfair?

It wouldn't be unfair if the myth that mil pilots are superior were true.
It's only unfair bc civilians have earned much better than they are getting

 

[Flopgut]

I think the NFL is a good comparison to this job. In that, the hardest thing is to simply get on the field [hired]. Oftentimes the best recruits aren't quite as good as they were envisioned to be; Most are good. And then there are quarterbacks like Brady and Warner who were unlikely at best and barely got the shot (Warner came from arena football!)

How many Brady and Warner's are out there never have/will get a shot? Plenty of good pilots don't get a shot either. Take your turn and get out.

 

[pilotyip]

Funny thing is a agree with you that the ratio appears unfair. What I did not agree with is you making it personal and insulting military guys. They didn't hire themselves. Your boss made the decision to recruit and hire them. Many of these guys you disparage are excellent pilots and good people. Don't blame them for getting the job. Blame your boss.

Now this may only apply to the places I have worked, all secondary air carriers. But the military pilots seem to bitch about their lot in life a lot less than their civilian counter parts.

This may be because they volunteered to join the "service". In the "service" there is a corporate culture of serving others, and giving beyond yourself to accomplish your mission. It is not about yourself, it about giving for a greater good. This could also be why airlines like these guys they know how to fly, they are trainable and other pilots don't drop "purple dots" on them.

 

[AirCobra]

I think most civilian guys have more time hand flying a C172 than military guys have total time. So, if hand flying is where it is at I think you need to try again.

"Minimums are only 250 hours, which can be waived to 190 hours if you attended a collegiate or Part 141 flight training program."

Where were you in the two last decades? When I was in college people usually instructed for about 3 years before they got a job flying cancelled checks in a Cessna 210, where after all those years instructing (not flying), they learned how to fly all over again.

 

[AirCobra]

Another excuse to not hire civilians^^

And speaking of fedex air cobra-

Their safety record is pretty awful- and we all know their military hiring preference

They have a 70% military and 30% civilian. Out of those military pilots 62% are Air Force. That means they like to hire guys with heavy jet experience, which is pretty hard to get in the other services. So Fed Ex wants guys with heavy time. I don't think they would care if you got it from the Air Force or Kalitta or Tower, as long as you had it.

Delta and SWA also have a higher ratio of military pilots than many other carriers yet their safety records are pretty good. I actually think that is a dumb argument anyway. You know who crashes planes? pilots do. Every airline crash had pilots at the controls. It is total nonsense to say that military pilots, women, or black people or whatever crash more. They are all pilots. You might as well say pilots make the safest bus drivers because no pilot was driving during a major bus accident.

Here are more stats:

Ship captains run the most ship aground, than pilots.

Train engineers crash more trains than pilots.

Does that mean a pilot would make a better ship captain or train engineer?

 

[sat74]

Lots of very experienced acmi civilians with heavy time still on the street that were snubbed by FedEx.

 

[AirCobra]

I am-


It wouldn't be unfair if the myth that mil pilots are superior were true.
It's only unfair bc civilians have earned much better than they are getting

There is the gist of you mistake. Who said superior? Military pilots received better and more easily quantified training. All it does is serve as a predictor of how they will perform in a structured training environment. We know from the Colgan accident that even airline training leaves something to be desired because of its length, and often times there are business considerations, especially because of things like mergers or expansion.

I found airline training challenging, but it had nowhere near the expectations that were placed on me in military training (and I was already a civilian pilot). Like I keep saying, you haven't been through both so I don't think you can make an accurate comparison.