Air Force to UAL New Hire

[Dan Roman]

No moron, there needs to be a level of competence.

For example, flying into Europe last week the civilian captain is verbally going over the missed approach procedures, except he was out of order so I am like no no no (so was the IRO) it's like this. WTF

Also why do you civilians fall asleep so fast?

You don't know jack ******************** about CRM so don't try to preach to me.

Actually, you don't know me so you don't know what my background is ( your mistaken about my experience with CRM) Your other mistake is generalizing about mistakes as being exclusively a civil or military issue. Pilots from ALL backgrounds make mistakes. It's the perception that one or the other is more prone that is erroneous. Again, the most dangerous are the ones that think they are somehow immune to mistakes because of their background.

You are making generalization's because you don't have the experience or ability to see reality. Almost all military pilots are outstanding, so are almost all civil pilots, there are weak in both ranks though.

 

[sat74]

We fall asleep fast so we don't have to deal with arrogant dbags like you!

 

[DCAA320]

We fall asleep fast so we don't have to deal with arrogant dbags like you!

Seriously, I bring 2 ipads and cannot believe someone would bring nothing to read on a 10 hour flight.

 

[Dan Roman]

We fall asleep fast so we don't have to deal with arrogant dbags like you!

That's a good point even if it was said tongue in cheek. Any pilot that constantly complains about co workers, whatever the reason, is generally the cause of the problem. Most pilots from all backgrounds are fine ( once you get to an airline you do, in fact, meet a general level of competence). If an individual is having problems with who he is flying with it is because HE is the problem. It simply is not that hard to competently get the job done, unless you are a doosh. In that case, YOU are the problem. Not the people you are working with.

 

[Dan Roman]

Seriously, I bring 2 ipads and cannot believe someone would bring nothing to read on a 10 hour flight.

Dude, you keep burying yourself as being self important and judge mental.
You really are no better than those you are pointing fingers at. No ones perfect, you sound like one of those that finds fault with others to try and make yourself look better.

 

[DCAA320]

.........

 

[DCAA320]

That's a good point even if it was said tongue in cheek. Any pilot that constantly complains about co workers, whatever the reason, is generally the cause of the problem. Most pilots from all backgrounds are fine ( once you get to an airline you do, in fact, meet a general level of competence). If an individual is having problems with who he is flying with it is because HE is the problem. It simply is not that hard to competently get the job done, unless you are a doosh. In that case, YOU are the problem. Not the people you are working with.

My bad, more exception than the rule, but I don't expect guys to pass out 30 minutes into the flight.

I like most of my co-workers.

 

[sat74]

My bad, more exception than the rule, but I don't expect guys to pass out 30 minutes into the flight.

I like most of my co-workers.

But do your co-workers like YOU? Probably not after reading your posts. Going back to sleep now...

 

[DCAA320]

But do your co-workers like YOU? Probably not after reading your posts. Going back to sleep now...

They touch me a lot, as far as female FA, so u tell me.

 

[pilotyip]

Maybe the good civilians aren't applying to your job.

That is most likely true. The only true airline people we have had apply are guys who lost their jobs, like Comair, Airborne, UPS, etc. They go through training and checking with no problems, but they do not stay long while looking for their next job. But we get a lot civilian pilots who have not been through a sturctered training program, they have a high failure rate. The miitarty guys we get are normally guys who have not flown for a few years and want to get back into flying airplanes or helo pilots with low fixed wing time. They are as easy to train as the experienced airline guys, even though their flight time is much lower. They understand a structured airline training environment, call outs, checklists, profiles, etc. One thing I never hear from the militarily guys is "Well that is not the way we did it at XYZ, this sucks". I think we turn out a decent product, we have not had any of our pilots who made PIC at JUS fail in their next job. They go places like SWA, AAL, DAL, JB, UPS, FedEx, etc

 

[imacdog]

No moron, there needs to be a level of competency.

For example, flying into Europe last week the civilian captain is verbally going over the missed approach procedures, except he was out of order so I am like no no no (so was the IRO) it's like this. WTF

My point is mil guys will know memory items and limits at the very least.

Also why do you civilians fall asleep so fast?

You don't know jack ******************** about CRM so don't try to preach to me.

On an entirely unrelated note that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your posts in this thread, does your carrier happen to have a bid avoidance list for its pilots to use?

 

[sat74]

No moron, there needs to be a level of competency.

For example, flying into Europe last week the civilian captain is verbally going over the missed approach procedures, except he was out of order so I am like no no no (so was the IRO) it's like this. WTF

My point is mil guys will know memory items and limits at the very least.

Also why do you civilians fall asleep so fast?

You don't know jack ******************** about CRM so don't try to preach to me.

Your CRM skills are amazing! Can you teach us more?

 

[ROSWELL41]

The military guys are good at networking and helping each other get jobs. That is a skill that more civilians need to work on. I'll give them that. The rest of this stuff is nonsense.

 

[skywiz]

The military guys are good at networking and helping each other get jobs. That is a skill that more civilians need to work on. I'll give them that. The rest of this stuff is nonsense.

One aspect of military pilots that I think is overlooked here is leadership experience. Military pilots don't just fly planes. They manage large groups of people, serve as operations officers, manage squadron safety programs, etc. Many have masters degrees. Airlines like Dal, UA, AA/US like to see a well rounded individual and a military aviator fits that description well. There is more to military aviation than just flying a plane.

 

[sat74]

One aspect of military pilots that I think is overlooked here is leadership experience. Military pilots don't just fly planes. They manage large groups of people, serve as operations officers, manage squadron safety programs, etc. Many have masters degrees. Airlines like Dal, UA, AA/US like to see a well rounded individual and a military aviator fits that description well. There is more to military aviation than just flying a plane.

Because once you get to the right seat of a major airline you will be using those skills as you check the flight plan, do your flows, do the walk around, order your coffee from the stews.... And once you get to the left seat, all you will want to do is go to work, fly, and go home. Nothing more. Period.

 

[skywiz]

Because once you get to the right seat of a major airline you will be using those skills as you check the flight plan, do your flows, do the walk around, order your coffee from the stews.... And once you get to the left seat, all you will want to do is go to work, fly, and go home. Nothing more. Period.[/QUOTE

I don't disagree with you. I have spoken to some recruiters for major airlines and they have stated that a well rounded person is highly desired in today's major airline pilot market. I didn't make this up. Its what I have heard and been told. I imagine things will change with time.

 

[SIG600]

Because once you get to the right seat of a major airline you will be using those skills as you check the flight plan, do your flows, do the walk around, order your coffee from the stews.... And once you get to the left seat, all you will want to do is go to work, fly, and go home. Nothing more. Period.

Speak for yourself.

 

[dicko]

You guys have it all wrong.....

THE reason SW (in particular) prefer to hire mostly military pilots has nothing to do with flying ability. It's because many of them question or even hate the idea of a "union", and will vote for whatever the company wants, even if it's to the detriment of labor. They are a known quantity, IE: "SIR,YES SIR", loyal to "The Borg" types, and management loves them. This worked fine in the pre GK, "we're all in this together" days, but I'm afraid that they're gonna get a lesson in Labor 101 that they won't soon forget, but then it'll be too late.

It's even better when these guys get elected to "union" positions (the "need to lead" is strong in many of them), and they have no clue that they AREN'T (or shouldn't be) an arm of management. The list of former SWApA folks now working for the G.O. is long and distinguished.

Many ex military are staunchly non yes men and are creative thinkers. They do exist.

The problem is perhaps the particular type of military pilot that SWA chooses. Of course the tools like to hire their fellow tools. Same with 'yes men'. Its like inbreeding - its a lot of fun, but there are sound reasons for it being out of fashion.

The pilots that you describe in your post are essential for the way the company is changing. It's hardly surprising considering the companies image. It's even less surprising when you look at what's happening with labor relations at this time.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Why is the failure rate so much higher then for civilian background guys compared to military background guys. BTW. I have flown with 19000 hour pilot I would not trust my family with

Then don't take your family flying with you....

 

[pilotyip]

Then don't take your family flying with you....

They don't need to worry I am one of those low time guys at 14,000 hours