AAI to SWA Training Schedule

[redflyer65]

RedFlyer65....I thought you guys all got a pretty decent system seniority bump? I have heard an average of around 10% some higher, some lower. Over the long haul that translates into a quicker upgrade for you...which really is more money...but that happens later down the road when you upgrade.

I lost 32% relative systemwide and my left seat and am hoping to stay close to what I was making before. If I lose some money now I should be able to make it up and earn more later as a captain again someday.

This way of looking at it is only true if we actually upgrade and can take advantage of the left seat pay. Many things could get in the way of that...if you hit 65 first...health problems....those payrates still in effect....etc. So I would look at it that way. You don't see benefits immediately...rather later on.

Less than a 3% bump in seniority....globally.

I won't upgrade ONE DAY before I would have otherwise.

Shootr is right, the ones that came close to 10% were very, very few. With an integration of 1700 pilots into 6000 pilots (and with the most senior at SW not even being touched), it never was going to amount to much of a bump. Just simple math.

 

[ATLplt]

With an integration of 1700 pilots into 6000 pilots (and with the most senior at SW not even being touched), it never was going to amount to much of a bump. Just simple math.

You meant an integration of 1200 AT pilots, because over 400 of us got stapled.

 

[redflyer65]

Mathematically, if every single AAI pilot was 'stapled' then the most junior SW guy would have had a 22% bump. And that would have been the absolute maximum, but most got 3-5% so no windfall there. And of course no stock for the scope relief and no 40-60% pay raise.

The upgrades are a different story and I never thought it would go down that way, nor agreed with it.

Did you really believe PCL's mantra of DOH or relative? Even if it went to arbitration there would have been plenty of AirTran guys showing up on the bottom. Did you seriously think otherwise? Really?

 

[PCL_128]

You don't have a clue, red.

 

[UALX727]

Alright, that makes sense. Being that the most senior AirTran pilot got placed 1300 something numbers down the global list....the senior SWA guys got the biggest bump due to the entire AirTran list being added behind them. As more AirTran guys get integrated....the seniority bump tapers off sounds like down to 3% then for the most junior SWA pilot? I can see how the junior SWA guys feel the way they do.

From the AirTran side, the pain varies upon when you were hired. Personally I feel the junior captains/senior first officers took the biggest hit over here...as far as overall seniority percentage lost.

 

[redflyer65]

Alright, that makes sense. Being that the most senior AirTran pilot got placed 1300 something numbers down the global list....the senior SWA guys got the biggest bump due to the entire AirTran list being added behind them. As more AirTran guys get integrated....the seniority bump tapers off sounds like down to 3% then for the most junior SWA pilot? I can see how the junior SWA guys feel the way they do.

From the AirTran side, the pain varies upon when you were hired. Personally I feel the junior captains/senior first officers took the biggest hit over here.

Completely agree UAL.

The most senior guys at SW were going to be untouchable anyway. They had a DOH at SW before AirTran was even a company. So it was kind of a given by both sides. Starting at somewhere in the middle of the pack at SW and the integration gets under way. Pain on both sides no doubt. I'm not trying to dismiss it, just show our side of the turd.

Hey PCL, you want jump in here and tell me what I got out of the deal? I'd love to hear your side of the argument. And I'm sure that you thought the most junior at AirTran would be feathered in with arbitration. Again, you were dreaming and in the end harmed your own pilots with that rhetoric.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Completely agree UAL.

The most senior guys at SW were going to be untouchable anyway. They had a DOH at SW before AirTran was even a company. So it was kind of a given by both sides. Starting at somewhere in the middle of the pack at SW and the integration gets under way. Pain on both sides no doubt. I'm not trying to dismiss it, just show our side of the turd.

Hey PCL, you want jump in here and tell me what I got out of the deal? I'd love to hear your side of the argument. And I'm sure that you thought the most junior at AirTran would be feathered in with arbitration. Again, you were dreaming and in the end harmed your own pilots with that rhetoric.

As far as showing your side of the turd, gaining little sure beats losing a lot, just sayin.

 

[redflyer65]

As far as showing your side of the turd, gaining little sure beats losing a lot, just sayin.

Yea, I guess you can just give the money back to Gary. You didn't need it anyway right? Need the address to send that check?

I'll never forget the two Airtran pilots in LGA high fiving each other the morning of the announcement. Why was that? Might have something to do with pay and work rules?

 

[vixin]

Personally I feel the junior captains/senior first officers took the biggest hit over here...as far as overall seniority percentage lost.

Jr. CA will make the same or more and have a better quality of life. No longer on the bottom of a CA list but in the middle or top middle of the FO list. Will upgrade again and make a lot more. SR FO got their AAI upgrade by getting our rates and they don't have to sit in the left seat , bottom of the CA list and bad quality of life. Ill be honest I got a 9% boost in seniority, but the ones below me don't mean crap. Its the ones above that matter. It changed my upgrade by 1yr and 9 months. Whippy do! Other then that we got zippo. So Ill see an extra $70,000 for that extra 1yr 9 months, maybe 12 years from now. Not worth it to me. See we got so much.

 

[madjack]

PCL, good thing U weren't representing the teamsters or longshoreman...you would have ur ass kicked

 

[HowardBorden]

I got less than an 8% bump in global seniority for now. Each and every bit of that bump is eroded away at the time of my retirement due to the relatively younger age of all the AirTran pilots placed on the list ahead of me.

 

[redflyer65]

PCL, good thing U weren't representing the teamsters or longshoreman...you would have ur ass kicked

There's probably more than a few AirTran guys that would like to go down that road.

I couldn't imagine the fallout in the work environment for him.

 

[PCL_128]

Hey PCL, you want jump in here and tell me what I got out of the deal?

You got hundreds of AirTran pilots placed under you on the list who had higher relative seniority than you did.

 

[PCL_128]

There's probably more than a few AirTran guys that would like to go down that road.

I couldn't imagine the fallout in the work environment for him.

Going to work is perfectly pleasant (on the rare occasion that I actually go). The only thing unpleasant is seeing all of that disgusting SWA propaganda everywhere in ops. "Golden rule," my ass.

 

[redflyer65]

You got hundreds of AirTran pilots placed under you on the list who had higher relative seniority than you did.

Yea, because a job at AirTran was equal to a job at Southwest. Sigh..

 

[PCL_128]

Yea, because a job at AirTran was equal to a job at Southwest. Sigh..

To me, it was worth far more. Value is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[waveflyer]

Keep f^cking that chicken PCL
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp-xl13CSyU

(Doesn't make it any less full of sh/t)

 

[bluesideup1]

Lets do the simple math here:

1700 AT pilots with one main base and 2 mini bases.
850 AT FO all get a huge bump in pay when they come over to S.W.
S.W. has 9 bases including two of the same bases as AT so now there is a lot less commuters.
850 AT captains About 400 will lose their seat to people who were senior to them even if you got DOH. Of those 400 they will now bid lines and vacation as FO that they couldn't dream of holding at AT. They will be able to pick up time and a half O.T. and charters making it easy to make more than they are currently making. If they decide not to exercise their seniority and pick up extra time they will make a little less in the short term but will STILL BE MAKING MORE THAN THEY DID TWO YEARS AGO.

The other 450 AT guys that come over will be able to hold captain and get another huge raise which is the 3rd large raise they got since they were bought.

By far the AT pilot group is going to make A LOT more than they ever could have at AT. They will also have A LOT more options on where they want to be based.

The fact that a disgruntled ALPA rep that over promised on what could be attained uses a very small segment of their pilot group to try and show harm boogles the mind of those here at SW that did not receive 40% pay increases and will not be making about a million on average more at SW.

I got 450 pilots ahead of me that were not there before. I have over 44 of them that will now retire after I do. Every year that global seniority thing you guys talk about gets smaller and smaller to the point I will be in the negative by the time I retire. Please go on and explain to me how I didn't get shafted. Tell me that my huge raise I didn't get will at least take away some of the sting. Tell me that my overall career earnings will have a significant increase because of you being bought.

Because right now the only thing I got out of this is a bunch crying preschoolers with a victimization complex.

 

[madjack]

The whiners like Luv2bsuckn and Cry Webb and especially PCL are considered marginalized idiots by their own group...

 

[PCL_128]

Only a complete moron would try to use pay to justify a loss in seniority.

 

[Just thinking]

"850 AT captains About 400 will lose their seat to people who were senior to them"........

EVERY Captain lost their seat.


"will now bid lines and vacation as FO that they couldn't dream of holding at AT. They will be able to pick up time and a half O.T. and charters making it easy to make more than they are currently making."..........

As a FAT reserve Captain who has transitioned I have to work 120 tfp to replace what I earned on the AT side. Still working weekends and holidays unless I commute to the west coast and that is before the rest of the FAT Captains come over in 2014. No chance to pick up charters or premium.

"The other 450 AT guys that come over will be able to hold captain"........

Not until there is a vacancy. Front loading of Captain slots in 2014 will ensure there will be no FAT upgrades for the next couple of years. This also ensures years of reserve for the RSW upgrades.


"I have over 44 of them that will now retire after I do."..............

Wow. A whole .0055% out of a 8000 pilot list will be in front of you when you retire.


"Tell me that my overall career earnings will have a significant increase because of you being bought"..............

They have been improved because you now have an airline that is poised to grow. You did not have that before. What you had before the purchase was an airline that was living in the past. 50 year-old ex-jock wearing a tight fitting letter jacket to the home coming game waxing nostalgic about 15 minute turns and 1-2-3 at the lobby bar. gk had to force a paradigm shift throughout the entire organization to change tracks and head off in a new direction.

Airtran was not the best in any way shape or form. What they were was a huge boil on Delta azz that was not going away. As a LCC we had a far superior product for the price when compared to SW. (Not as good as JB though) Our performance metrics were far superior. We had grown to 100 aircraft quicker than any other airline until JB eclipsed that mark. Our contract was not stellar but improvements were being made. (Much more quickly than the improvements when comparing airline growth timeline comparison.) From SWAPA's mouth.... you did not negotiate an industry leading contract..... everyone else just receded behind yours through bankruptcy.

Without the purchase you would not have broken ground for any international terminal. Without the purchase you would not have started international. You would not be looking at larger aircraft for the future because a 737 variant is just fine for domestic travel. When you retire with all .0055% of FAT pukes ahead of you, look at where SWA has grown to and ask yourself if they could have done it without the catalyst of the Airtran purchase?

This was gk speech to the share holders when campaigning for the purchase of AT and his promise for 15 % ROIC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62kxPyNZF3Q

 

[redflyer65]

Your easily making 120tfp now at SW and your complaining? What longevity pay step are you on?

I'll take a guess at 7 year. 120tfpX122 = $14,640

Even if you were at the top payscale at AAI Sept 1, 2010 (which you weren't) you wouldn't even be making that. 151X80 = $12,080.

I'm sure you were working weekends and holidays as a junior AAI CA as well. No change there.

I understand you're too junior for premium and charter, but please. You want to come on here and bitch about making MORE money? What your really bitching about (under the surface) is that you aren't a Captain anymore.

I'm glad of the things that AirTran brought, but you think SW wouldn't have done ANY of this without them? Again, your dreaming. SW was held back by their reservation system. And that was a boneheaded move to let it go on as long as it did.

AirTran didn't help one bit with Navitaire. It's about as outdated as what SW had. So no gain there. What did AirTran bring internationally again? One thing that did help was GK getting a look at the AirTran international revenue but I imagine he had an idea of that before he even thought about the purchase.

I'm sure with 3 billion in the bank that SW was just dumbfounded about how to proceed internationally until AirTran showed them the way. Yes they could have done it without the 'catalyst' of an AirTran purchase.

 

[twepilot]

Here's some of my current stats. I've been wondering if I'm going to take a hit in the pocketbook or not. Maybe red can help interpolate for me...I'm at 180/hr and try to get between 83-87 hrs per month. I live way below my means but I live in base. Now I have a daughter that starts college in the fall and we have a horse that pretty much is equal to our house payment other than that we live pretty cheap. Everything is paid for except the house and regular monthly bills. Go..

RV

 

[twepilot]

I should also add that I don't pick anything up but I try to maximize on days that I have to work with trades during SAP. So playing the system should not be in the equation.
RV

 

[Tripower455]

I should also add that I don't pick anything up but I try to maximize on days that I have to work with trades during SAP. So playing the system should not be in the equation.
RV

How many days are you working at what longevity now?

 

[vixin]

I'm at 180/hr and try to get between 83-87 hrs per month.

How did you pay your bills before you went from 152-180, just a few years ago? With my math you would need 115 TFP working 16 days per month at 7.2 TFP per day. Could trade into more productive trips at 7.5 TFP would be 15 days. The above is for an average of 85 hrs. Now use your old rate and you only need 98TFP. That can be done with zero issues.

 

[madjack]

Sell the horse and move to domicile....

 

[madjack]

Oh and next time u see PCL kick him in the jimmies

 

[redflyer65]

I'm at 180/hr and try to get between 83-87 hrs per month.

That's a great pay rate from what you where making at the non-SW owned AirTran. Will you come up short as an FO at SW? Depends on your longevity. Which is nice that you'll bring those AirTran years of service over to this side of the fence.

Deal one might have been better for you, if you had a chance to vote on it. You know, instant SW Captain rates, keeping your seat and a fence around Atlanta.

+1 on the Jimmie Sack.

 

[27 driver]

Lets do the simple math here:

1700 AT pilots with one main base and 2 mini bases.
850 AT FO all get a huge bump in pay when they come over to S.W.
S.W. has 9 bases including two of the same bases as AT so now there is a lot less commuters.
850 AT captains About 400 will lose their seat to people who were senior to them even if you got DOH. Of those 400 they will now bid lines and vacation as FO that they couldn't dream of holding at AT. They will be able to pick up time and a half O.T. and charters making it easy to make more than they are currently making. If they decide not to exercise their seniority and pick up extra time they will make a little less in the short term but will STILL BE MAKING MORE THAN THEY DID TWO YEARS AGO.

The other 450 AT guys that come over will be able to hold captain and get another huge raise which is the 3rd large raise they got since they were bought.

By far the AT pilot group is going to make A LOT more than they ever could have at AT. They will also have A LOT more options on where they want to be based.

The fact that a disgruntled ALPA rep that over promised on what could be attained uses a very small segment of their pilot group to try and show harm boogles the mind of those here at SW that did not receive 40% pay increases and will not be making about a million on average more at SW.

I got 450 pilots ahead of me that were not there before. I have over 44 of them that will now retire after I do. Every year that global seniority thing you guys talk about gets smaller and smaller to the point I will be in the negative by the time I retire. Please go on and explain to me how I didn't get shafted. Tell me that my huge raise I didn't get will at least take away some of the sting. Tell me that my overall career earnings will have a significant increase because of you being bought.

Because right now the only thing I got out of this is a bunch crying preschoolers with a victimization complex.

Who's crying now?
Like you guys like to say......83% of you guys voted for it. Blame Gary and SWAPA.