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AAI to SWA Training Schedule

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twepilot said:
Here's some of my current stats. I've been wondering if I'm going to take a hit in the pocketbook or not. Maybe red can help interpolate for me...I'm at 180/hr and try to get between 83-87 hrs per month. I live way below my means but I live in base. Now I have a daughter that starts college in the fall and we have a horse that pretty much is equal to our house payment other than that we live pretty cheap. Everything is paid for except the house and regular monthly bills. Go..

RV
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Not to stir the pot. But I think you guys are going to get to bid Captain in Dec.
 
Red, I was not complaining about the money. I was refuting some of the generalizations that have been made. Would AirTran Airways have made it maybe not.... will Southwest Airlines be a stronger because of the acquisition most certainly so. I work hard to earn more than the average. I did it while on reserve and I certainly do it now (as bottom third )line holder..... that is what an east coast base will get you at ten years longevity with a plus hit to seniority.
As an aside..... very few felt that relative seniority was realistic.
 
JT,

I never thought that AAI wouldn't make it. I think you guys were stable enough to continue to plug away with a product that plenty liked. I don't think your payraises would have been stellar under your management team. It was the eternal Heisman.

I hope we all prosper with the combination, for you and me combined. Neither of us can change how this went down. It's over. I'm hoping for growth to help ease the pain for all. I'm all in on this deal. I've made a ton of money on SW stock and I'm still buying. So I hope collectively we can get it done.

I honestly hope you can find what your looking for over here. Whether it's more money or QOL....or both. This acquisition wasn't anyone's first choice, but all have to deal with and move on. I'm ready, but on the other hand I don't like revisionist history when I see it (more like PCL's comments)
 
I try and get 15-17 days off per month. Selling the horse is a huge no go. He's part of the family. Honestly, I don't know who loves him more me or my daughter. Or, my wife for that matter. Moving would further cut to the quick since my wife would be leaving her job/income. I agree about AIP 1. A colossal, blinders on, F'up by a few in the MEC/LEC.

RV
 
Also, I won't be bidding capt until I can get ATL. However long that may be. Did the commuting thing already. That's a young mans game post 9-11.
RV
 
PCL_128 said:
Only a complete moron would try to use pay to justify a loss in seniority.
Click to expand...

Yet you sacrificed your Gulfstream seniority to go to Pinnacle. And then you walked away from your Pinnacle seniority to go to Airtran. These acts weren't just the loss of some seniority slots, they were a complete loss of all seniority and the ability to exercise any rights you once held on the seniority list.

I'm quite certain these transitions were motivated by pay; however, I would describe these as acts of a rational person, not a "complete moron."
 
Candide said:
Yet you sacrificed your Gulfstream seniority to go to Pinnacle. And then you walked away from your Pinnacle seniority to go to Airtran. These acts weren't just the loss of some seniority slots, they were a complete loss of all seniority and the ability to exercise any rights you once held on the seniority list.

I'm quite certain these transitions were motivated by pay; however, I would describe these as acts of a rational person, not a "complete moron."
Click to expand...



Maybe he felt that AirTran was a career destination. Many AirTran guys believed that and enjoyed it and never intended to move on.
 
Exactly.
 
Candide said:
So were you or weren't you a "complete moron" when you gave up seniority for more pay?
Click to expand...

Seniority arbitrations are done by category and status for a reason. Pay rates may fluctuate up and down over time to some extent, and which carrier is on top at any given year changes constantly. But a narrowbody job is a narrowbody job. An RJ job doesn't compare, and neither does a 747 job. That's why arbitrators don't slot them together. For the same reason, leaving an RJ operator to go to a 717/737 operator is not comparable to giving up seniority for pay when merged with another narrowbody operator. You know this. Don't pretend otherwise.
 
madjack said:
Many of your peers felt differently and left AAI, for SWA (and then got junior AAI placed over them)
Click to expand...

Many? I don't think that word means what you think it means.
 
PCL 128 is a SWA hater. And that's OK.

I really don't mind. He was a SWA hater before the deal, so in a way, I admire his consistency.

Funny thing about hate, though. It clouds your judgement. It makes you walk away from a career at a new company that is worth seven figures more than the previous. It makes you eschew a new company known for great QOL and job security out of spite, although your old company had notoriously toxic management relations and questionable long term security.

Hate clouds one's judgement, and it can have devastating effects on one's personal life. But at least PCL's hate has only impacted his own situation.
 
PCL_128 said:
Seniority arbitrations are done by category and status for a reason. Pay rates may fluctuate up and down over time to some extent, and which carrier is on top at any given year changes constantly. But a narrowbody job is a narrowbody job. An RJ job doesn't compare, and neither does a 747 job. That's why arbitrators don't slot them together. For the same reason, leaving an RJ operator to go to a 717/737 operator is not comparable to giving up seniority for pay when merged with another narrowbody operator. You know this. Don't pretend otherwise.
Click to expand...

Just asking the question. Isn't the 717 listed as a regional jet by Boeing? I thought I saw something like that on their website. Just curious.

Jim
 
The CA pay at Pinnacle was 65-70/hr and the max pay at AirTran in the right seat (which he never reached) was 79/hr. Other than not commuting, the hourly pay rate was never recovered from leaving Pinnacle.

Well, except for the ALPA gig and $3,000 dinners..

which he needed to commute for. Go figure.
 
afhercdriver said:
Just asking the question. Isn't the 717 listed as a regional jet by Boeing? I thought I saw something like that on their website. Just curious.

Jim
Click to expand...

I don't believe so. The DC-9-10 was advertised like that way back when it was introduced, though.

Regardless, marketing and names means nothing. It's an aircraft with 117 seats in a 2-class configuration. No different than a 737.
 
redflyer65 said:
The CA pay at Pinnacle was 65-70/hr and the max pay at AirTran in the right seat (which he never reached) was 79/hr. Other than not commuting, the hourly pay rate was never recovered from leaving Pinnacle.

Well, except for the ALPA gig and $3,000 dinners..

which he needed to commute for. Go figure.
Click to expand...


$79 hr? Currently is about 115 hr. plus that included an 10.5 DC that Swa took away. Meaning compensation would have been around low 120's. I know you ONLY look at pay rates and hypothetical ones at that. Should we use Swa pay rates pre fuel hedging then?
 
PCL_128 said:
I don't believe so. The DC-9-10 was advertised like that way back when it was introduced, though.

Regardless, marketing and names means nothing. It's an aircraft with 117 seats in a 2-class configuration. No different than a 737.
Click to expand...

Some operators only have one class configuration in their 73's. Kind of like a commuter rj or turbo prop.
 
Kenney G said:
$79 hr? Currently is about 115 hr. plus that included an 10.5 DC that Swa took away. Meaning compensation would have been around low 120's. I know you ONLY look at pay rates and hypothetical ones at that. Should we use Swa pay rates pre fuel hedging then?
Click to expand...


How about we use the pay rates on the announcement of purchase? You good with that, or you want to make up some other number that you weren't getting paid Sept. 2010?

Why would we use any other pay rate than what we were receiving Sept 2010? Same as AirTran.
 
PCL_128 said:
Seniority arbitrations are done by category and status for a reason. Pay rates may fluctuate up and down over time to some extent, and which carrier is on top at any given year changes constantly. But a narrowbody job is a narrowbody job. An RJ job doesn't compare, and neither does a 747 job. That's why arbitrators don't slot them together. For the same reason, leaving an RJ operator to go to a 717/737 operator is not comparable to giving up seniority for pay when merged with another narrowbody operator. You know this. Don't pretend otherwise.
Click to expand...

I would not take a pay cut to fly a B-777 nor would I turn down a pay raise to fly a C-152.

The fundamental nature of employment is service for recompense. The type of equipment the employer provides for your job is immaterial. A construction worker cares only about his pay and benefits, not about whether he operates the big crane or the back hoe. A taxi-cab driver would prefer to drive the Lincoln, but will gladly drive the Chevy if it pays more.

Airline CEOs base their pay on what they can negotiate, not on whether or not their company flies RJs, 737s, or A-380s. I've never heard Brian Bedford refer to himself as an RJ CEO.

The pilot unions' fixation on equipment type resulted in the regional whipsaw that has transferred billions of dollars from labor to management over the past couple of decades. Shiny Jet Syndrome is a pervasive cancer in this profession. We've let how big and how shiny an airplane is disrupt the economic principles of supply/demand and qualification/experience in determining pay rates and "status."
 
Luv2BFlyin said:
Some operators only have one class configuration in their 73's. Kind of like a commuter rj or turbo prop.
Click to expand...

True. And also operate a -800 in one configuration that seat 175 people. Max takeoff weight around 175 thousand pounds. Yea, that's close to the same.
 
PCL_128 said:
I don't believe so. The DC-9-10 was advertised like that way back when it was introduced, though.

Regardless, marketing and names means nothing. It's an aircraft with 117 seats in a 2-class configuration. No different than a 737.
Click to expand...
Swing and a miss.

Boeing Introduces 717-200 Airplane as New Regional Jet

The Boeing Company today introduced and renamed the newest member of its commercial airplane family -- the Boeing 717-200 twinjet.
"The 717-200 is uniquely qualified to meet the evolving requirements of the new regional jetliner market," said Ron Woodard, president, Boeing Commercial Airplane Group. "It's a 100-seat airplane market that demands comfort, low operating costs and high schedule reliability. This is the plane to meet that need."


http://boeing.mediaroom.com/1998-01-08-Boeing-Introduces-717-200-Airplane-as-New-Regional-Jet
 
Would the 500 be considered an old RJ as well. In a two class configuration it would have seated around 109, less than the 71? As it is, it seats 117.
 

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