AA recalls starting to increase

[glasspilot1]

Yo Glass, always a pleasure my man. Congrats on the retirement, hope you don't miss the line too much.

73

I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss the flying part! It's just everything else I don't miss!

 

[STL717]

I guess most people don’t remember everything that was going on in the industry in 2000, 2001.

UAL and US Airways were in the process of merging. To alleviate antitrust issues, part of the combined airline was going to AA, specifically the Fokkers and some 757s. Only the 757 pilots were coming to AA with the planes. A new airline was to be created in DCA and AA was going to run it for awhile. AA also had issues with nowhere to grow in ORD or DFW and STL would add a 3rd east – west hub. All of this would require more pilots at AA.

Prior to the UAL US Airways merger being completed AA buys TWA. AA would still have to hire more pilots to cover all the flying after the planes arrive from the UAL –US Airways merger.

Then... everything changed.

The UAL US Airways deal fell through. The economy was starting to slide into a recession. Then on Sept 11, 2001 the industry and the economy was hit hard by terrorism.

AA has been shrinking since then.

 

[71driver]

American Airlines took a run at TWA in the 80's Crandell was going to purchase TWA as a whole but at the midnight hour Ichan said he would not sell, but he would sell of the Heathrow ops TWA had at a premium. Crandell excepted the offer and purchased BOS,RDU,JFK, MIA to Heathrow (and I believe some others) that was a huge hit on TWA and a huge help to AA for their int'l presence, Heathrow to the US is still some of the MOST profitable routes in the world. I think most AA"ers don't realize a large part of their success could agruable be the purchase of and their presence in Heathrow, I don't want to start another arguement on this I just found it interesting.

Ichan also sold Heathrow routes to USAIR and United
in the 80's he was a real scumbag.

Also during the purchase of TWA Gordon Bethune of Continental offered 300 Million for TWA's int'l route authority which was about the same price AA paid for TWA, but of course Don Carty wanted nothing to do with that and being Debtor in Posession of TWA I think he was able to squash that quickly

 

[AA717driver]

G4G5--The "Boeing Deal" was not the land of milk and honey. As it was explained to me (I actually heard about it about 6 hours before the AA deal broke from an 890--that's "check airman" to AA'ers.) "everyone will have to take a hit". Meaning a pay hit.

The goal was to 1.) get Icahn off the property and 2.) get the IAM (specifically the rampers) to change their workrules.

I personally was in no mood to take a pay cut just to entice the rampers to get rid of their onerous workrules.

Six hours later, I got the phone call at 2 am announcing the AA deal. Again, the Boeing Deal would have been a 'scorched earth' plan to get rid of the two impediments to TWA's turnaround--Icahn and the IAM. TC

 

[G4G5]

American Airlines took a run at TWA in the 80's Crandell was going to purchase TWA as a whole but at the midnight hour Ichan said he would not sell, but he would sell of the Heathrow ops TWA had at a premium. Crandell excepted the offer and purchased BOS,RDU,JFK, MIA to Heathrow (and I believe some others) that was a huge hit on TWA and a huge help to AA for their int'l presence, Heathrow to the US is still some of the MOST profitable routes in the world. I think most AA"ers don't realize a large part of their success could agruable be the purchase of and their presence in Heathrow, I don't want to start another arguement on this I just found it interesting.

Ichan also sold Heathrow routes to USAIR and United
in the 80's he was a real scumbag.

Also during the purchase of TWA Gordon Bethune of Continental offered 300 Million for TWA's int'l route authority which was about the same price AA paid for TWA, but of course Don Carty wanted nothing to do with that and being Debtor in Posession of TWA I think he was able to squash that quickly

UAL purchased their LHR routes from Pan Am, USAir didn't not purchase any LHR routes from TWA

 

[G4G5]

G4G5--The "Boeing Deal" was not the land of milk and honey. As it was explained to me (I actually heard about it about 6 hours before the AA deal broke from an 890--that's "check airman" to AA'ers.) "everyone will have to take a hit". Meaning a pay hit.

The goal was to 1.) get Icahn off the property and 2.) get the IAM (specifically the rampers) to change their workrules.

I personally was in no mood to take a pay cut just to entice the rampers to get rid of their onerous workrules.

Six hours later, I got the phone call at 2 am announcing the AA deal. Again, the Boeing Deal would have been a 'scorched earth' plan to get rid of the two impediments to TWA's turnaround--Icahn and the IAM. TC

TC,

Most AA pilots only hear the, we should have went with the Boeing deal part. Everyone seems to leave out the "scorched earth" part or the reduced "by 1/3" part.

I was always under the ASSumption that it was a deal to keep TWA intact (100%), with no reduction in size.

Thanks,
PB

 

[glasspilot1]

>> UAL purchased their LHR routes from Pan Am, USAir didn't not purchase any LHR routes from TWA <<

Actually G4G5, you beat me to this. You are right UAL from Pan Am. And Usair did not serve LHR, only Gatwick. I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong.

When Icahn sold the Heathrow authority, it was a big hit on moral at TWA. And do you think Icahn plowed the money back into the operation?

Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Neubyfly]

Yes one pilot did come back from furlough directly to the left seat, I provided the evidence. .

Was that pilot a FIS? A voluntary furlought that would NOT have been furloughed if they did NOT volunteer?

 

[glasspilot1]

Was that pilot a FIS? A voluntary furlought that would NOT have been furloughed if they did NOT volunteer?

Yes

(i only added these words because this forum wants 5 words min)

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Actually, you are both wrong...

...AA under Crandall tried to purchase 6 LHR routes from TWA for over half a billion dollars. The DOT said AA could only buy 3 of the 6 routes. Icahn sold the 3 routes to AA for the same price he was going to sell all 6 routes to AA. The other 3 routes were sold to USAir for 80 million.

One of the routes that went to USAir was BWI LHR. At the time I was an International F/A for AA out of DCA.

After British Airways infused cash into USAir, BA took over the LHR routes from USAir. So three former US carrier routes went to the British.

When I was an F/A for AA, I thought I might see the LHR route, but didn't happen. When I was a TWA pilot the routes were gone. I still get a little pissed when I see that BA B777 fly near my house and into BWI. It used to be daily about 5:00pm, but now I see it less frequently.

Oh yeah, Icahn kept all that money.

>> UAL purchased their LHR routes from Pan Am, USAir didn't not purchase any LHR routes from TWA <<

Actually G4G5, you beat me to this. You are right UAL from Pan Am. And Usair did not serve LHR, only Gatwick. I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong.

When Icahn sold the Heathrow authority, it was a big hit on moral at TWA. And do you think Icahn plowed the money back into the operation?

Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[glasspilot1]

>> Icahn sold the 3 routes to AA for the same price he was going to sell all 6 routes to AA. The other 3 routes were sold to USAir for 80 million.

One of the routes that went to USAir was BWI LHR. <<

Thanks Jeff! Now that rings a bell.

Another thing Icahn was able to do as the private owner of TWA: Just after he took the co. private we had a fleet of L1011's. Old but paid for. He sold them to his own leasing co. So now TWA has these old widebodies AND we're paying lease payments. And the cash went; well you know where it went.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

and another thing...

I am very familiar with what you have stated below as well. All the red ground equipment was sold to one of the Icahn ego companies and then leased back at a higher rate. DC9 sim sold for 3 million and then TWA had to pay over 3 million a year to rent what they used to own.

I just finished dinner, now it is not settling too well.

How about offering to let my ride that scooter of yours in the avatar? Now, that would make me feel better. I've got the type rating!!!

>>

Another thing Icahn was able to do as the private owner of TWA: Just after he took the co. private we had a fleet of L1011's. Old but paid for. He sold them to his own leasing co. So now TWA has these old widebodies AND we're paying lease payments. And the cash went; well you know where it went.

 

[XTW]

I believe USAir got PHL-LGW from TWA during this whole ordeal.


X

 

[glasspilot1]

>> How about offering to let my ride that scooter of yours in the avatar? Now, that would make me feel better. I've got the type rating!!! <<


Look, don't touch! Ya, it's a 1975 Suzuki GT750. It's big claim to fame; it was the first modern water cooled bike. Not a big deal now but back in '72 (first year) mags were saying: "A radiator? On a motorcycle"?!!!

Also 3 cyl, 2 stroke, a unique bike.

Now Jeff, when do you expect recall and will you accept?

 

[lookin4better]

A question I have: Will AA need to even hire after these 2900ish recalls?? Essentially this IS their hiring for this cycle....what type of retirement numbers are we looking at for 2009-2015? Will hiring commence after the recalls? In the end I know what the answer is, hire until furlough and furlough until hire......

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

The scooter....

...my first scooter was a 1969 Honda 750cc. I believe it was the the of the 750cc class. It had a similar look, just bigger.

You can ride the MD Scooter anytime, as long as I get a pay assignment!!! "Paint it green and fly it to Moline!"

I am less than 600 numbers out from getting the call (not counting the bypassers) and will defer as long as possible. I was projected to get called before the end of the year, but now think it will be next year.

For the last poster (future AA applicant) I think AA will hire off the street, as many will exercise the 3 year bypass option. The 3 year clock does not start until the very last of the almost 2900 pilots has had the chance for recall (received the call).

It could be feasible that AA would need to hire off the street in 2009.

>> How about offering to let my ride that scooter of yours in the avatar? Now, that would make me feel better. I've got the type rating!!! <<


Look, don't touch! Ya, it's a 1975 Suzuki GT750. It's big claim to fame; it was the first modern water cooled bike. Not a big deal now but back in '72 (first year) mags were saying: "A radiator? On a motorcycle"?!!!

Also 3 cyl, 2 stroke, a unique bike.

Now Jeff, when do you expect recall and will you accept?

 

[Swede]

Fellas, the AA/TWA deal sucked for EVERYONE except the greedy corporate bastages who walked with million$. I am one of those 17 year native FO's. I remember getting my new seniority number that year and moving down several hundred. At the same time, a lot of long-term TWA guys were stapled and screwed. Then furloughed. I had it good compared to many.

FWIW I think I've picked up maybe 3 trips in 5 years, even when my monthly PROJ drops into the 60's due to cancellations. Guys pick up trips because in some cases, if they don't they will lose their homes. The whole thing stinks. I hope in years to come, the wounds will heal, all furloughees will be working, and we'll hire again off the street. In the meantime, it's time to fight for a contract that will define our profession, at AA and possibly beyond AA, for decades. THIS IS THE BIG ONE. If we cannot get it back now, I don't think we ever will.

 

[71driver]

Fellas, the AA/TWA deal sucked for EVERYONE except the greedy corporate bastages who walked with million$. I am one of those 17 year native FO's. I remember getting my new seniority number that year and moving down several hundred. At the same time, a lot of long-term TWA guys were stapled and screwed. Then furloughed. I had it good compared to many.

FWIW I think I've picked up maybe 3 trips in 5 years, even when my monthly PROJ drops into the 60's due to cancellations. Guys pick up trips because in some cases, if they don't they will lose their homes. The whole thing stinks. I hope in years to come, the wounds will heal, all furloughees will be working, and we'll hire again off the street. In the meantime, it's time to fight for a contract that will define our profession, at AA and possibly beyond AA, for decades. THIS IS THE BIG ONE. If we cannot get it back now, I don't think we ever will.

dude you kill me, you mean you moved down several hundred #'s man that must have been devestating......how do you cope my friend
Based on your first comment I have to assume you don't pick up trips out of laziness and nothing more, you have shown your hand....buh bye

 

[Swede]

I had it good compared to many. At the same time, a lot of long-term TWA guys were stapled and screwed.

dude, you're a MORON. I AM ON YOUR SIDE! Did you even read my post? Idiot. Don't presume to tell me what I think.

 

[aa73]

Swede, disregard his post, he obviously didn't get it. You came through loud and clear.

71driver... get a clue man, he is on your side.

73