AA recalls starting to increase

[CitationLover]

You guys kill me, none of you want to believe sworn Senate testimony. You would rather believe your own versions. OK, I give.

Like I said before Ican killed TWA not AA

Icahn loaded the gun, but AA pulled the trigger.

 

[G4G5]

Icahn loaded the gun, but AA pulled the trigger.

No, AA put the tape line around the body and the tag on the toe

 

[TWA Dude]

You guys kill me, none of you want to believe sworn Senate testimony.

You kill me, you believe everything a CEO says at face value. Oh, I mean, except when it's Arpey saying something YOU don't like.

Compton was testifying to expedite DOJ approval for the buyout using the "failing carrier" argument. He selectively said what had to be said to make a convincing argument. As TC wrote, a TWA BOD member said there was a Plan B. (I read his exact words as well.) Whether that Plan B would've succeeded is subject to speculation but nevertheless it was real and it involved money from Boeing. There's no denying that TWA was in poor financial shape but it's a simple fact that on January 7, 2001, TWA was solvent and there were no "lawyers on the stairs of the courthouse" waiting for the order to file Chapter 11. Except when forced by creditors the exact moment when a corporation files bankruptcy is discretionary. TWA's filing on January 8 was part of the deal between Compton and Carty and was designed to get Icahn out of the picture. And it worked. Those are facts, not speculation.

 

[blzr]

Who wants to speculate when AA will begin hiring off the street?

 

[XTW]

Who wants to speculate when AA will begin hiring off the street?

2nd Q 2009 providing everything stays status quo.

 

[Uniform Shop]

TWA's filing on January 8 was part of the deal between Compton and Carty and was designed to get Icahn out of the picture. And it worked. Those are facts, not speculation.

Here is a excerpt from an article explaining just that.


NEW YORK (CNNfn) - American Airlines parent AMR Corp. unveiled several widely-expected acquisitions Wednesday, including an agreement to purchase most of the financially troubled Trans World Airlines Inc. assets for about $500 million cash. TWA, one of the oldest carriers in the United States, filed for bankruptcy as part of the arrangement.

Was TWA in financial trouble? YES, nobody denies that but as you said those are the facts, not speculation.

 

[waveflyer]

blah blah - etc- etc- rehash - rehash

We need to have a national list so this type of pettiness gets stopped. Let's figure it out.

the view that somehow pilots of the acquiring carrier should benefit from the deplorable acts of another's CEO is anti-union. As if it couldn't have happened to you. At the same time- why should AA pilots get pushed down b/c of it? The problem is that both arguments are valid- the problem isn't how the integration happened - just like it's not the problem at usair- Both of these integration disputes and their ill-will are the only logical ending to our ridiculous seniority system.

Continuing to marry our airlines through seniority is the stupidest, short sighted tradition that we have.

 

[TWA Dude]

At the same time- why should AA pilots get pushed down b/c of it?

They shouldn't. And they didn't. Everyone knows if an arbitrator had done the TWA/AA integration it would've been a much different affair. The arbitrator in AWA/USAirways didn't staple any active pilots; they were all ratioed in a relative-seniority manner.

As for your "solution" of a national seniority list: a great idea that will never happen. Next idea, please.

 

[pkober]

We need to have a national list so this type of pettiness gets stopped. Let's figure it out.

Not saying your are one, I know you're not.

An observation. The only guys I ever hear saying we should have one national seniority list, here at CAL, are the SCABS from 1983-85.

 

[G4G5]

You kill me, you believe everything a CEO says at face value. Oh, I mean, except when it's Arpey saying something YOU don't like.

Compton was testifying to expedite DOJ approval for the buyout using the "failing carrier" argument. He selectively said what had to be said to make a convincing argument. As TC wrote, a TWA BOD member said there was a Plan B. (I read his exact words as well.) Whether that Plan B would've succeeded is subject to speculation but nevertheless it was real and it involved money from Boeing. There's no denying that TWA was in poor financial shape but it's a simple fact that on January 7, 2001, TWA was solvent and there were no "lawyers on the stairs of the courthouse" waiting for the order to file Chapter 11. Except when forced by creditors the exact moment when a corporation files bankruptcy is discretionary. TWA's filing on January 8 was part of the deal between Compton and Carty and was designed to get Icahn out of the picture. And it worked. Those are facts, not speculation.

Compton specificly denied that their were any bailouts from Boeing. He said this in his phone message to ALPA (I believe that it was mid 12/00) I also vividly remember him saying that their was, "No white knights" and "Boeing was not interested".

The whole Boeing RUMOR cracks me up. To think that Boeing would bail out TWA after American had just signed an exclusive all Boeing contract is absurd. Yep, that makes sense piss off one of your potentally biggest customer ( remember in 1999 AA was placing huge all Boeing orders) just to save the 717.

It's a nice rumor but I go with the sworn Senate testimony any day of the week

 

[xtwapilot]

Compton specificly denied that their were any bailouts from Boeing. He said this in his phone message to ALPA (I believe that it was mid 12/00) I also vividly remember him saying that their was, "No white knights" and "Boeing was not interested".

The whole Boeing RUMOR cracks me up. To think that Boeing would bail out TWA after American had just signed an exclusive all Boeing contract is absurd. Yep, that makes sense piss off one of your potentally biggest customer ( remember in 1999 AA was placing huge all Boeing orders) just to save the 717.

It's a nice rumor but I go with the sworn Senate testimony any day of the week

G0G1,
you amaze me. You simply don't get it. The Boeing deal was no rumor. You were just told a few posts ago that this came from a TWA BOD member, perhaps you have a comprehension problem. As for Boeing p*ssing off AA, business is business, if Boeing beat AA to the punch, what is AA going to do, stop ordering airplanes from Boeing? If you really believe that, then your more naive than I originally thought.
I can comfirm the Boeing deal as I flew with the MEC Chairman at the time and he told me about the TWA BOD member and the entire story was that Boeing was going to rebate $250 million to TWA and bring in a turn around team, the turn around specialist was a firm, whose name I wish I could remember, but, perhaps someone else can chime in with the name. In either case, regarding the original assumption you brought up, once again, Compton, told the truth about TWA's cash crush, no one in court nor congress asked him how the cash crush came about, and he didn't divulge the information. Therefore, no perjury. And of course Compton would say there were no white Knights, Boeing, etc. because the Boeing deal was presented to the TWA BOD and never voted on as Compton was given one more shot at getting his deal done. BTW, only the Exec BOD members knew that Compton was working on AA, no one else knew. EVeryone else knew he had a potential buyer, but didn't know who.
Essentially, these are the facts, and what you hear or want to believe as an outsider who wasn't even at AA or if you were, you were just learning to fly big jets, doesn't really matter in the end. It's been 7 years and the issue is dead for most TWA pilots, we just don't want to hear from ill informed AA types like you. Move along, the accident is over.

Xtwapilot

 

[Uniform Shop]

Deleted post because XTWAPILOT just explained it.

 

[spacecadet1]

Yep, the moon landing was a hoax, they are spreading chemtrails in the sky to brainwash us, OJ was innocent, the TWA acquisition was a conspiracy, blah, blah, blah.........

 

[pkober]

"If the glove don't fit...."

It was a hoax done in a Vegas studio, everyone knows that.

Who is the "they" that is spreading chemtrails? Apparently you know something. I would be carefull because the men in black will be coming for you.

 

[G4G5]

G0G1,
you amaze me. You simply don't get it. The Boeing deal was no rumor. You were just told a few posts ago that this came from a TWA BOD member, perhaps you have a comprehension problem. As for Boeing p*ssing off AA, business is business, if Boeing beat AA to the punch, what is AA going to do, stop ordering airplanes from Boeing? If you really believe that, then your more naive than I originally thought.
I can comfirm the Boeing deal as I flew with the MEC Chairman at the time and he told me about the TWA BOD member and the entire story was that Boeing was going to rebate $250 million to TWA and bring in a turn around team, the turn around specialist was a firm, whose name I wish I could remember, but, perhaps someone else can chime in with the name. In either case, regarding the original assumption you brought up, once again, Compton, told the truth about TWA's cash crush, no one in court nor congress asked him how the cash crush came about, and he didn't divulge the information. Therefore, no perjury. And of course Compton would say there were no white Knights, Boeing, etc. because the Boeing deal was presented to the TWA BOD and never voted on as Compton was given one more shot at getting his deal done. BTW, only the Exec BOD members knew that Compton was working on AA, no one else knew. EVeryone else knew he had a potential buyer, but didn't know who.
Essentially, these are the facts, and what you hear or want to believe as an outsider who wasn't even at AA or if you were, you were just learning to fly big jets, doesn't really matter in the end. It's been 7 years and the issue is dead for most TWA pilots, we just don't want to hear from ill informed AA types like you. Move along, the accident is over.

Xtwapilot

Just did a Google and Yahoo search on "TWA Bankruptcy Boeing Bailout"

Guess what I came up with NOTHING! Show me your proof, other then he said she said, you've got nothing. I'll stick with the Senate testmony.

Give me something other then, oh yeah did you read that other guys post.

You can't because other then, the I flew with a guy BS or I spoke with a guy garbage, you've got nothing, other then what you want to believe. Which just happens to disagree with the sworn Senate testimony of the former TWA CEO

Bottom line Boeing was not there, nor was anyone else but AA when the S hit the fan

You are right it's over, it was over the day Carl Ican got involved with TWA

 

[xtwapilot]

G0G1,
I guess you have just proven that you have gone your entire life with your foot in your mouth. Just because you did a google search and found nothing doesn't mean that it didn't exist. Many discussions are held between companies about buyouts and mergers that never come to light.
The simple fact that you seem to think if it's not in the google database, it must not be true proves that you clearly don't have the ability to think beyond your nose.
The difference here is that TWA might have been done as you say, but all of her pilots have moved on, you on the other hand will go through life with you foot in your mouth. Have fun talking, I'm out.

Xtwapilot

 

[TWA Dude]

G2G3: The TWA BOD person posted his knowledge on the TWA Pilots message board. That's how the several of us posting here all read it. As X wrote, Compton probably didn't know about the Boeing deal it and it's obviously not public information so no Google results. You can choose to believe it or not but that doesn't change the facts; it just proves that you believe what you wish to believe. We have a first-person account of these events.

 

[Flybywire44]

AA wants to merge, wonder how that will affect those still furloughed. How many are bypassing?

 

[aa73]

Guys:

I didn't start this thread for another TWA/AA argument!

Here are the facts, for the record, in the interest of putting some issues to rest (yeah, right!):

-47% of TWA pilots were integrated at 1:8
-53% were stapled
-As previously mentioned, only ONE TWA pilot was recalled straight into the left seat, in the very first recall class. This pilot had taken a "furlough stand in stead" and was way above "furlough seniority." Our contract stipulates that any pilot who takes a furlough stand in stead can "reinstate" straight to their former bid status if such an opening exists at the time of recall (and they have the seniority to hold it.)
-The very first TWA furloughee just got his CA reinstatement two months ago, around an 8800 seniority.

Back to the original thread... it looks like we are finally increasing recalls and hopefully it will keep up!

regards,
73

 

[MCDU]

Will American allow all their pilots on furlough to be stapled if they would merge or should they be included? That would staple 2000 pilots and would give the other airline a nice buffer.
Furloughed pilots do not bring any jobs, so I guess they do not count.

Marty