9e/xj/9l picketing 12/10 mem

[coonass]

hey I'm up for a Us airway and American west style merger I couldn't give two $hits. if people continue down this road that what your going to happen. I wouldn't say pompius even thought things are slow right now.With two more sections getting TA'ed last night and talks Are moving along far be it moving slowly. it's just not the right time to piss big daddy D off and Corp. right now when talks completely break down then it's time to burn the bastard down hell I'll pay for the gas since yallpay sucks . but until talks completely break down it's been six years what's another few days. hell if you really want we can go red book green book like northwest. let's just let laying dogs lay a few more day and after that gloves are off.

 

[WayBack]

Wow! One contract, one list, one voice, and only one picketing?

[FONT=&quot]good times[/FONT]

And management loves it when they don't have to drive a wedge between the pilot groups, just let ALPA take care of that! hahaha!

 

[WayBack]

We have typically found informational picketing to be very successful

How is picketing successful? How do you rate if it's successful or not?

 

[mxaviator]

Everyone knows how long it has taken the 9E pilots.....but this merger of the 3 pilot groups is a different ballgame and the timeline for a contract cannot be viewed from the beginning of 9E pilots original negotiation. This should not be hard to understand. I understand how fed up 9E pilots are with management, but this will not happen overnight. I say stop with the stupid unreasonable deadlines and get it done with. When it's done, show the TA to the pilots to vote on.

I see your point. But 9E pilots have plenty of reasons to be fed up with management, you're new management. They know you're up against. Explain get it done, you make it sound so simple. Anyways, management is loving this divide...

 

[COOPERVANE]

Pilots=playing checkers

MGMT=Playing chess

 

[machaf]

Hey Sven. I mean Seven, can I call you SVEN? Anyways. Whatever happened with your statement that you'd never works for Pinnacle Corp? Just curious... Are you flowing soon?

 

[RJLoser]

Hey Sven. I mean Seven, can I call you SVEN? Anyways. Whatever happened with your statement that you'd never works for Pinnacle Corp? Just curious... Are you flowing soon?

What??

 

[Top Gum]

[FONT=&quot]The picketing is a total waste of time but if they want to push all of this “one voice” mess then they should at least all be in agreement to participate.
[/FONT]

 

[blackbox]

Is Mesaba and Colgan MEC not afraid of the possible repercussions in the future for advising their pilots NOT to support another ALPA group?

I have no idea whats gonna happen at Pinnacle Corp. next year, but lets just say LOA 21 happens or frag policy (which I really dont know much about) takes affect. Whatever it may be, and metal starts moving. If Mesaba and/or Colgan thinks they are getting the shaft and decide to picket, will they expect Pinnacle, Delta, FedEx, United to be there to support?? I am not saying they won't but there is that possibility, isn't there? I heard one of the reasons why the NWA pilots didnt support the mechanic strike, was because the Mechanics told the pilots to pound sand back when they asked for help.

 

[AiRegency]

I would normally agree the picketing is a bit of a waste but I do know that when you time it just before Christmas and you get the propper news coverage it has a way a hitting the airline where it hurts the most. Delta isn't going to like the negative publicity. Even though it's informational in nature, as soon as joe public sees pilots marching with signs, they will go out of there way to avoid that airline for fear their flight won't leave. This will have a financial impact on the airline. That serves as an incentive. Will it be a powerful enough of one? Doubtful. Especially if Mesaba and Colgan aren't going to help out.

This whole thing has just convinced me that the Mesaba MEC is still ignorant as to who it is they are negotiating with. The tactic is an old one and it's obvious. They will continue to make progress until the holidays are past then it peters out and the pilots are left standing there holding there wangs with nothing to show for there efforts. 9E management just has to squeek by the holiday travel rush then the pressure is off. I always understood that it's better to learn from others mistakes then to make them yourself. I guess the XJ MEC missed that advice from their parents. They've had 6 years to see the process as it's been applied to 9E and yet they are willing to fall for the same old gag themselves at the first opportunity. Or should I say 2nd or 3rd? I can't remember how many deadlines have passed now. Let the holidays sneak by, lose that ace up your sleeve. Swing and a miss. I thought you guys were supposed to be hot $hi# or something? Maybe just $hi#.

 

[Top Gum]

[FONT=&quot]It’s Memphis, the flying public has no other choice! [/FONT]

 

[Top Gum]

Is Mesaba and Colgan MEC not afraid of the possible repercussions in the future for advising their pilots NOT to support another ALPA group?

I agree. This is just a bad idea all around and is going to cause a lot of friction.

 

[CptMurf]

3 more sections TAd today. Only 4 left.

 

[Top Gum]

[FONT=&quot] Scheduling, insurance, compensation and vacation. They should have it all wrapped up by lunchtime![/FONT]

 

[NWA]

Wow only 4 items left!!!! Those 4 items are the biggest and that should take about 2 yrs! You guys are dillusional thinking you're making progress with this company. You'll see soon enough how Corp is going to bend you over. Mesaba's MEC should be ashamed of herself. This will be worst than the USAir/American West fiasco.

 

[WayBack]

Wow only 4 items left!!!! Those 4 items are the biggest and that should take about 2 yrs! You guys are dillusional thinking you're making progress with this company. You'll see soon enough how Corp is going to bend you over. Mesaba's MEC should be ashamed of herself. This will be worst than the USAir/American West fiasco.

all brought to you by ALPA.

 

[Simon Says]

I would normally agree the picketing is a bit of a waste but I do know that when you time it just before Christmas and you get the propper news coverage it has a way a hitting the airline where it hurts the most. Delta isn't going to like the negative publicity. Even though it's informational in nature, as soon as joe public sees pilots marching with signs, they will go out of there way to avoid that airline for fear their flight won't leave. This will have a financial impact on the airline. That serves as an incentive. Will it be a powerful enough of one? Doubtful. Especially if Mesaba and Colgan aren't going to help out.

This whole thing has just convinced me that the Mesaba MEC is still ignorant as to who it is they are negotiating with. The tactic is an old one and it's obvious. They will continue to make progress until the holidays are past then it peters out and the pilots are left standing there holding there wangs with nothing to show for there efforts. 9E management just has to squeek by the holiday travel rush then the pressure is off. I always understood that it's better to learn from others mistakes then to make them yourself. I guess the XJ MEC missed that advice from their parents. They've had 6 years to see the process as it's been applied to 9E and yet they are willing to fall for the same old gag themselves at the first opportunity. Or should I say 2nd or 3rd? I can't remember how many deadlines have passed now. Let the holidays sneak by, lose that ace up your sleeve. Swing and a miss. I thought you guys were supposed to be hot $hi# or something? Maybe just $hi#.

Mesaba MEC and the top half of our pilot group is well versed in negotiations. We are well aware of stall tactics and the other typical manuevers that management uses to apply pressures during negotations.

Like I said before, 9E management is not tougher, smarter, or even more cunning than our management group. They are just different. Mesaba has overcome many pressures over the past 9 years.

Now, lets talk about these negotiations. Moving of deadlines a few days is not a delay tactic. It is part of the bargaining to try to reach a deal. If they were to move to next month and scheduled to have only 1 or 2 sessions scheduled then I would agree that they are delaying. Lets also realize that the type of negotiating we are doing is not Section 6 negotiations.

I will say it again. These are not section 6 negotiations....Yes, that goes for the Pinnacle pilot group also. No section 6 negotiations for anybody. Now if the Pinnacle pilot group broke off and negotiates on their own for their own contract, I would say that would be section 6 negotiations. Since we are not in section 6 their is no reason for management to delay. They could simply stand up and say we are not negotiating anymore.

 

[SEVEN]

Email Update

For ALL of you that want negotiations to fail and/or break down, PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!











Joint Negotiating Committee Update—December 9, 10:00 PM EDT

At this hour the JNC continues to meet with management in Herndon, VA in an attempt to complete negotiations for a joint contract for all three pilot groups.

Today we reached agreement on Section 1 (Scope), one of the most critical aspects of this joint agreement. Coupled with the already agreed-upon Parent Agreement, our Scope section protects the flying our three carriers perform for Pinnacle Corp., as well as ensuring critical labor protections in the event of a purchase of another carrier or the sale of one of our operations. We have also reached agreement on Section 13 (Leaves of Absence) and Section 26 (General), closing up a number of issues that lingered throughout this negotiation.

Discussion continues on Section 25 (Scheduling), with both sides making significant moves to bring the contract to resolution. We believe our Scheduling proposals meet both parties’ needs in this critical area. Discussions on Section 27 (Insurance) also continue.

Beyond Scheduling and Insurance, the only remaining sections on the table are Section 3 (Compensation) and Section 7 (Vacation). We will continue to keep you updated as negotiations progress.

Our Unity is Our Strength.

 

[CptMurf]

Wow only 4 items left!!!! Those 4 items are the biggest and that should take about 2 yrs! You guys are dillusional thinking you're making progress with this company. You'll see soon enough how Corp is going to bend you over. Mesaba's MEC should be ashamed of herself. This will be worst than the USAir/American West fiasco.

It has taken 68 days to complete what took 9E 5 years of negotiations. These last items are the same "last items" negotiated in ANY contract. I would call this "making progress." Have some patience, let the negotiators do their job.

As to being ashamed, you might want to call your DAL reps, because the last I heard DAL was not supporting the picketing either. So, you are in no different spot than I am there Nancy.

 

[Top Gum]

[FONT=&quot]Mesaba and Colgan’s MECs requested for their pilots NOT to support 9E pilots. That’s huge and it changes things from now on. Even if we get the contract it’s a big deal and it will not be forgotten. It’s one thing to have a low level of support (we expected that) but to specifically request pilots not to support one another is unheard of. These pilot groups are going to have to work side by side and I can assure you they will remember this for a very long time. It’s just wrong.[/FONT]