9e/xj/9l picketing 12/10 mem

[Simon Says]

To Simon Says,

Are you kidding?

If you are serious, I am sure if you had lived during the second world war you would have been one of those guys telling the Nazis that your neighbors were Jewish so that you wouldn't get in trouble and because that's what they told you to do.
people like you need to grow some balls.
If through our history people would have always followed and obey the rules some of which being made to the advantage of a minority then you would still be living in a dictatorship.

Sometimes you need to take risks and make sacrifices in order to get a result, If it means losing your job, think about people risking their life.

I believe it has been over 5 years that Pinnacle pilots have been trying to get a new contract, it seems that all previous actions such as picketing haven't produced any result, it may be time to change the strategy and take some risk.

If lives were at stake then I would say you are spot on. Since we are negotiating under a legal frame work of the Railway Labor act then your post does not hold water.

We need to negotiate and sponser LEGAL work actions. We, as a pilot group, cannot stray outside the bounds of the laws that hold our contract legal.

 

[Simon Says]

Posted on the "other" board also

A few starters: every spoiler has 2 bonding straps that need to be there.
The gear doors have bonding straps.
Spare fuses need to be there.
ADG placard needs to be there. Really any red placard.
Nosewheel steering on/off label needs to be there.
The little mechanism that is under your knee to move it up needs to have ALL it's parts and work correctly.
Parking brake handle loose?

There are plenty of others. The key is to stand up and take one for the team if you have to. If it's broke at the outstation write it up!

Do a search for others.

You are correct on all those points. But, look at the lawsuit against the APA (Americain Pilot Association) and the Comair write up campaign. The Comair write up campaign was a classic example of how things can go wrong quickly. The judge ruled that the write ups were legitimate write ups, but ruled the pilots were writing up the airplanes unjustly and ruling in the companies favor.

 

[Smarta$$]

You are correct on all those points. But, look at the lawsuit against the APA (Americain Pilot Association) and the Comair write up campaign. The Comair write up campaign was a classic example of how things can go wrong quickly. The judge ruled that the write ups were legitimate write ups, but ruled the pilots were writing up the airplanes unjustly and ruling in the companies favor.

Worked for NWA and ASA. You are correct that he should be careful what he says on a public forum, but you are incorrect that we need play nice after 6 years. Playing nice will guarantee one thing only, 6 more years without a contract.

 

[CptMurf]

XJ Rep just informed me that the XJ guys are being asked NOT to participate in the picketing. Sorry to my friends that I gave told that I will be there.

 

[Ridgeback]

Why?????

 

[CptMurf]

Why?????

PMed you

 

[RJLoser]

XJ Rep just informed me that the XJ guys are being asked NOT to participate in the picketing. Sorry to my friends that I gave told that I will be there.

What about all the unity "Kum ba ya" BS murph??

 

[bri5150]

What about all the unity "Kum ba ya" BS murph??

I haven't heard a thing from CptMurf, or any of my reps, but I am going to take a stab at this. Maybe because Pinnacle is picketing for their OWN contract, not as a joint force for all three of us? Where is the unity in THAT?

Edit:

This is truly turning into a charlie foxtrot quick. This may be worse than America West and U.S. Airways.

 

[RJLoser]

PCL is picketing not having a contract. The contract they want (and are walking for) is a joint contract. XJ not walking is a bold statement!

 

[CptMurf]

What about all the unity "Kum ba ya" BS murph??

Well... "Kum ba ya" is still needed. It just seems some have left the reservation. And we will ALL (3 groups involved here remember, not just 9E) pay for it. I now have to honor the solidarity of MY pilot group, which says not to walk. I was planning to be there, and I apologize to my friends for not being able to.

 

[higney85]

XJ and CJC were invited to join. Initially (and up to yesterday) we were supported, now they are the first groups EVER to tell their ALPA members to NOT support their fellow ALPA brothers and sisters. No problem, FDX and DL will be coming to the party.

 

[bri5150]

XJ and CJC were invited to join. Initially (and up to yesterday) we were supported, now they are the first groups EVER to tell their ALPA members to NOT support their fellow ALPA brothers and sisters. No problem, FDX and DL will be coming to the party.

Well, according to the newest e-mail from Mesaba ALPA, and I paraphrase obviously, they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by "protesting" when negotiations haven't stalled. Sounds like two more sections were TA'ed yesterday, and they are still optimistic this can get done by the end of the week. The problem here is that Pinnacle has worked without a new contract for a long time, but they have been working on THIS contract for a short time. I think Mesaba MEC sees the clock as reset for Pinnacle, but Pinnacle's MEC obviously does not.

Again, I ask why Pinnacle is so excited about getting to negotiations on their own (both Union and pilots)? What are the advantages? The only advantage I can think of is you sign a crap contract just to sign it, you get Mesaba's 900's, and then try to screw over the Mesaba pilots to better your own situation. I really don't get it. We will have more leverage together for a better contract. Why will management give you a contract any faster than before if you work on your own? Is Mesaba and Colgan holding you back from your stellar contract? I've asked this before, but nobody had an answer.

 

[RJLoser]

Deleted. Done trying to explain things to XJ. Join us in the walk. You don't want this to look how it's going to look.

 

[rumorhasit]

My question is, what strike or threat of strike has ever worked long term in the regionals? Comair=> barely afloat down to minium aircraft, xjet=>nearly bankrupt, cal reduced aircraft and eventually bought by a non-union company. Any others that have ended up healthy long term? I'm asking because I don't know of any.

 

[CX880]

My question is, what strike or threat of strike has ever worked long term in the regionals? Comair=> barely afloat down to minium aircraft, xjet=>nearly bankrupt, cal reduced aircraft and eventually bought by a non-union company. Any others that have ended up healthy long term? I'm asking because I don't know of any.

Comair and Exjet got screwed because they invested heavily in 50 seat jets. As of right now, 50 seaters are losing money for most if not all of the majors. The only major that actually does well with the regional feed is USAirways because they have the majority 70+ seaters.

 

[Raskal]

I have to admit I am a bit taken aback that our union has, in such a public manner, asked that we not participate in a picketing event involving our own company. I've sent an email and hope for a response at some point, but this is going nowhere good and looks absolutely horrible.

 

[SEVEN]

The wording sure sounds like the 9E Picketing will be/is very counter-productive. All XJ guys/gals need to let our guys negotiating get the job done. This is a very painstaking process that is going on in DC right now. If and when the word is given for a "blowing smoke" informational picketing, then we will do it. But for now, enjoy your Dec. 1 snap back pay raises and let them hash this thing out with Uncle Phil.



From the Mesaba MEC Negotiating Update Email:

Negotiations for the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement continue this week in Washington, D.C., and have yielded positive results. During the first ten hours of bargaining, we reached a Tentative Agreement (TA) on Sections 11 (Training & Testing) and 24 (Filling of Vacancies), and continued progress on Sections 25 (Scheduling) and 27 (Insurance Benefits). We believe a TA on the JCBA is within reach by the end of the week.

As some of you may have heard, the Pinnacle MEC is planning a number of informational picketing events commencing on Friday, December 10 in Memphis, TN. We have typically found informational picketing to be very successful when we have reached an impasse during bargaining. However, considering the progress at the bargaining table this week, we believe it will be counter-productive to engage in picketing at this time. While we respect the Pinnacle MEC’s point of view, we are asking all Mesaba pilots to refrain from participating at these events. We need to remain focused on our goal of One Contract for One Seniority List.

 

[Raskal]

Well, according to the newest e-mail from Mesaba ALPA, and I paraphrase obviously, they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by "protesting" when negotiations haven't stalled. Sounds like two more sections were TA'ed yesterday, and they are still optimistic this can get done by the end of the week. The problem here is that Pinnacle has worked without a new contract for a long time, but they have been working on THIS contract for a short time. I think Mesaba MEC sees the clock as reset for Pinnacle, but Pinnacle's MEC obviously does not.

Again, I ask why Pinnacle is so excited about getting to negotiations on their own (both Union and pilots)? What are the advantages? The only advantage I can think of is you sign a crap contract just to sign it, you get Mesaba's 900's, and then try to screw over the Mesaba pilots to better your own situation. I really don't get it. We will have more leverage together for a better contract. Why will management give you a contract any faster than before if you work on your own? Is Mesaba and Colgan holding you back from your stellar contract? I've asked this before, but nobody had an answer.

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing that. I don't think they want to screw us over any more than we want to them, the usual number of vocal idiots in both groups aside.

I think what they see is a long, drawn-out and arguably failed negotiation now being blown through with little regard for advancement. Remember, they voted down the last TA...now it appears as though we (XJ) have come in and accepted some things they were unwilling to accept previously and, now, have chosen to vocally oppose their negotiation efforts (MEM picketing). Unless I'm missing something (always possible) I just can't help but think we have taken a very wrong turn here, if only in the sense of working together.

 

[SEVEN]

Two sections TAed yesterday, scheduling almost done. One of the reps from MEM said yesterday it sounds like they're doing some really creative things with the payscales. Current rates +4-5%/yr, split the FO rates, 2%/yr after ammendable. Pinnacle doesn't want to take the payroll hit of bringing the Colgan pilots up all the way, all at once. So, they'd get like 15%/yr and after 4 years the rates would meet and be the same. Evidently the Colgan MEC is on board with this, possibly with the condition of fencing the Qs for a while. Sounds like everyone's playing ball except 9E..

Also it looks like long call out reserve is going to happen at some level.

 

[Raskal]

Two sections TAed yesterday, scheduling almost done. One of the reps from MEM said yesterday it sounds like they're doing some really creative things with the payscales. Current rates +4-5%/yr, split the FO rates, 2%/yr after ammendable. Pinnacle doesn't want to take the payroll hit of bringing the Colgan pilots up all the way, all at once. So, they'd get like 15%/yr and after 4 years the rates would meet and be the same. Evidently the Colgan MEC is on board with this, possibly with the condition of fencing the Qs for a while. Sounds like everyone's playing ball except 9E..

Also it looks like long call out reserve is going to happen at some level.

I have no doubt things are going well, and I'm very happy with what I've heard.

My issue is that we either have or are allowing a wedge to placed between the MEC's. To spell it out, politically I don't think the request for us to not join in picketing was thought out, or maybe it was which is worse. Quietly passing along the word that joining the picketing isn't a great idea is one thing. I mean, how many of the guys would actually go picket anyway? To come out in writing is to clearly state that we have no faith in the other MEC's tactics. Whether or not we actually have any faith is irrelevant, by doing it in writing it is drawing a very public line in the sand. Is that the best thing to do at this point? Doesn't that give an advantage to the other side (mgmt)?

The "house divided..." phrase is a cliche for a reason.