1108 Union Leadership Abandons Hostages

[Fedmagnet]

Why don"t you stop your crying and run for office if you"re so sheeit hot. Bet you are one of those types that wants a raise and all the protections of a contract but won't lift a finger to help. But, you'll take it when we have a contract.

Thanks for the idea!
"Fedmagnet for President"

I will do more than lift a finger!
If I became the President, the consultant would not run the Union.

How is the "being patient and following managements desires" working out for you?

 

[B19 Flyer]

What a load of horsecrap! People don't listen to you because you're a certifiable whackjob. There is a BIG difference between having a cogent and well thought out opinion and shear stupidity. Yours is clearly the latter.

Oh yeah? I'm sure there are people that send supportive messages to Louis Farrakhan or Rush Limbaugh and even they feel they get the warm and fuzzies. Opposing valid opinions are fine. However, you're just a foolish radical extremist.

Why am I an extremist? Because I oppose the union view?

Any individual that is willing to put a company out of business and place the welfare of other workers at risk because the company is not willing to meet the demands of a particular workgroup is selfish, egotistical and ignorant. Just because some are silent doesn't mean that their opinions are any different than mine.

I'm anything but foolish, and I write what most think but won't say out loud.

I'm not opposed to high pay or fair work rules.

I am opposed to a CBA that restricts companies from doing business and expanding, scope clauses and the slow reaction that unions give to slipping economic climates that place jobs at risk, especially those workers that are at the mercy of any particular organized work group.

I'm opposed to the union concept of letting the bottom of the seniority order go to preserve high wages of the rest during times of poor economic climates.

I'm opposed to the turmoil unions bring through the negotiating process and the lingering effects throughout the organization.

I'm opposed to the union thinking that the CBA is only there to protect the union and when the union member wants something extra that protects the company and doesn't get it the whining that goes along with it.

I'm opposed to the damage I've witnessed to families of union members during work actions when they discover that strike pay won't cover the basic Cobra Insurance and the membership wasn't informed.

I could continue on this list but union members only see what they want to see and can't believe that anybody would ever disagree.

No company begins with a union, the union only comes on board because a small group within the company thinks that they can do better than the ownership that began the company.

Union members don't believe in the free market economy when it comes to wages.
They feel that the only way to make more money is to hold the company hostage and make the rest of the employees suffer.

 

[Fozzy]

So if we were paid less, the company may not lay off employee's? Really? So they are going to pay people to just sit around and do nothing? If a company is overstaffed why would the keep paying idled workers?
I would be like a contractor paying carpenters (sub's) when there is no building to be done.
I just don't understand the logic.

It seems I would be taking a unnecessary pay cut with the same end result. Seems like a bad personal financial decision.

I have had my FI fix for now. I think I will make this a drive-by.

 

[gunfyter]

I gotta agree with 19.

Unions suck.

Why should furloughs go by seniority order? The company can make more money furloughing more senior people who have invested More of their lives with a company.

Better to hire, use people up and then furlough when their pay grows too much higher than someone we can fetch off the street.

Why should people feel more secure in their jobs at a company as they invest more of their lives into it? Better to keep them more worried and on their toes. In fear always for their jobs.

Also ... wont it be cheaper for the company if they only hire unmarried males ... Why bear the cost of medical benefits to people who have families or might become pregnant?

Older folks ... they get sick more often. Should be furloughed first.

Yes I gotta agree with 19.

 

[slowjet]

Thanks for the idea!
"Fedmagnet for President"

I will do more than lift a finger!
If I became the President, the consultant would not run the Union.

How is the "being patient and following managements desires" working out for you?

Works just fine for me.
I want a president who uses his head to think- not crying and do the best job for us so we can have something worth voting "yes" the first time around- not a substandard piece of crap contract that has to be re-negotiated.
What are you going to do- run into Ken's office and make demands? We'll see how far that get's us.
Being "patient" is a something you have to endure on occasion. But, you have to be a mature person to have it.
End of discussion.

 

[CA1900]

Also ... wont it be cheaper for the company if they only hire unmarried males ... Why bear the cost of medical benefits to people who have families or might become pregnant?

Even better, we could get rid of that medical coverage right now if it weren't for that pesky CBA!

 

[brokeflyer]

if people get furloughed then I feel bad for them. But once you take a pay cut, you'll never get it back.

so that avenue aint gonna work.

our "industry leading" contraxt falls WAY short of being able to give concessions.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I gotta agree with 19.

Unions suck.

Why should furloughs go by seniority order? The company can make more money furloughing more senior people who have invested More of their lives with a company.

Better to hire, use people up and then furlough when their pay grows too much higher than someone we can fetch off the street.

Why should people feel more secure in their jobs at a company as they invest more of their lives into it? Better to keep them more worried and on their toes. In fear always for their jobs.

Also ... wont it be cheaper for the company if they only hire unmarried males ... Why bear the cost of medical benefits to people who have families or might become pregnant?

Older folks ... they get sick more often. Should be furloughed first.

Yes I gotta agree with 19.

You need to read. My complaint isn't about furloughing in order of seniority, although I do believe that when it's all about survival I do want the best around me.

My complaint about how unions handle industry downturns is that they will sacrifice the bottom third of the seniority and retain the high pay with overtime rather than not take overtime and allow more jobs to be saved by opening the contract.

The saddest part of all is the sacrifice the rest of the company needs to make to pay for an expensive CBA when times get tough. Everybody else has their pay cut first, then the layoffs happen while all the union members drain company resources.

Yes, unions suck.

 

[brokeflyer]

here's what really happened....

Our conntract falls way short of what we should be making. The cost of a flight crew is extremly low here. You don't walk into office max and tell them you'll pay $3 for that pack of pencils when they are marked at $5?

no, cause that is what they cost. A 5 year captain SHOULD be making about $185,000/yr. So you see, regardless of the economy, we have a long way to go.

as far as the furlough?, well that can happen regardless of what we "negotiate". NJ does something like 2 bilion per year in business, so our whopping 30 million per year in salaries don't even make the accountant squirm yet.

I tihnk unions suck too, I guess you shoulda just got hired sooner. If i was low on the list I wouldn't be crying about giving money back to save my job. That would only hurt ALL the employees.

you can't have it both ways.

 

[gunfyter]

You need to read. My complaint isn't about furloughing in order of seniority, although I do believe that when it's all about survival I do want the best around me.

My complaint about how unions handle industry downturns is that they will sacrifice the bottom third of the seniority and retain the high pay with overtime rather than not take overtime and allow more jobs to be saved by opening the contract.

The saddest part of all is the sacrifice the rest of the company needs to make to pay for an expensive CBA when times get tough. Everybody else has their pay cut first, then the layoffs happen while all the union members drain company resources.

Yes, unions suck.

How would opening up a contract save ANY jobs?

If there are airplanes that need to be moved ... Pilots are needed to move them no matter what they are paid.

If planes do not meed to move ... the pilots are Not needed and WILL BE furloughed .... No jobs will be saved by concessions.

Right now we have not furloughed ... but since flying is down industry-wide by about 30% ... obviously management can furlough ANY TIME they want.

Its only the fact that we have a Great management team with a good relationship with the Union ... that we have not had any furlough yet. I know our management and union are taking Every Step to avoid furlough. But the ONLY thing that will avoid furlough is MORE FLYING.... However the SLOW SEASON is only a couple of months away. I think thats why the companies who have furloughed have just announced them this week.

But taking concessions will NOT increase our flying or Sales ... It would therefore Not save Any Jobs....

The Other carriers in our industry have NO CBA ... yet they have furloughed ... Management has all the discretion they need to change the conditions of employment ... Have jobs been saved? No.

Furloughs have nothing to do with the presence of a union or no union. But when the furlough is over ... Pilots will return to very good jobs and benefits that the union helps to preserve for them.

 

[Fedmagnet]

Ignore B19 (Bob)

He is just here to convince a few sheep to believe that Flops will look out for their best interest.
What flavor of cool-aid are you serving this month Bob?

 

[Fedmagnet]

Yet another day has gone by with no contract. While Ricci and the guy that controls the IBT1108 has had a bumper year.

 

[Fedmagnet]

We have SFO on the negociation table but "hostage return" is nolonger.

Union leadership response; "What hostages?" :cartman:

Ricci is laughing his azz off.

 

[OldCrow]

Who would that be?

"and the guy that controls the IBT1108 has had a bumper year."
Are you talking about National Level, or the MEC? If it is the later,
I would really like to hear how that could be. They are just line Pilots, like
the rest of us...and doing our bidding, AND don't get to fly. How could that be a "bumper year"?

 

[Fedmagnet]

I had a whole page of an explanation typed out and it all dumped when I clicked SUBMIT.
But here is the short answer.

The consultant: RD.
If you don't believe me just ask him. If you ask MS he will have to confer with the consultant and get back to you, either way a few more hours will be charged to the War Chest.

It is my opinion that the consultant will suddenly loose interest in the negotiations between Flight Options and their pilots when the war chest runs dry.