1108 Union Leadership Abandons Hostages

[Mike Jenvey]

<<<< I had a whole page of an explanation typed out and it all dumped when I clicked SUBMIT.>>>>

Had same problem on this site & others too. Top tip - either copy your text before hitting SUBMIT, or, use a Word/text document to compose your reply & then copy/paste to the forum reply window. Either way, you don't lose things.

 

[glasspilot]

I've used the back button on my browser. It reloads the page with you text still there.

 

[Fedmagnet]

I tried the back button but it came back to a blank page.
I started off with a short reply and started getting excited and got into it and lost track of time. :0 I have done this to myself a few times.
The copy and paste is a good method but I forgot again.

It was a work of art! :cartman:

 

[DUATS]

So if we were paid less, the company may not lay off employee's? Really? So they are going to pay people to just sit around and do nothing? If a company is overstaffed why would the keep paying idled workers?
I would be like a contractor paying carpenters (sub's) when there is no building to be done.
I just don't understand the logic.
.

GM did exactly that for years. It was called the "jobs bank".

Didn't seem to work so well for them. Union membership at GM dropped from 600,000 to 60,000 before the bankruptcy. It will be about 40,000 after.

 

[DUATS]

You need to read. My complaint isn't about furloughing in order of seniority, although I do believe that when it's all about survival I do want the best around me.

My complaint about how unions handle industry downturns is that they will sacrifice the bottom third of the seniority and retain the high pay with overtime rather than not take overtime and allow more jobs to be saved by opening the contract.

The saddest part of all is the sacrifice the rest of the company needs to make to pay for an expensive CBA when times get tough. Everybody else has their pay cut first, then the layoffs happen while all the union members drain company resources.

Yes, unions suck.

I think you both get a bit of this right. Unions are often needed to ensure that when business circumstances require a furlough that it is done in an orderly and fair fashion.

But I think it is also true that in SOME CASES senior employees cajole junior members to vote the union in so they can see what they hope will be a big raise. But as soon as the union is voted in, there is a move towards protecting the top, not the entire membership. This has been seen not only in aviation, but other industries. I remember years ago a mining company offered the union the choice: 20% pay cut, or 20% job cut. 80% of the membership voted to cut the jobs. That isn't a truly union mentality.

It would be much easier to support a union if I knew all the union members would support the junior guys.

 

[brokeflyer]

yup that may very well be true. It's a shame that greedy management causes that to happen. It's sad that we need a union in this industry since the pilots are the ones that directly do all the work.

 

[DUATS]

yup that may very well be true. It's a shame that greedy management causes that to happen. It's sad that we need a union in this industry since the pilots are the ones that directly do all the work.

But when management tries to screw labor and push comes to shove, do you think most senior frac pilots would "look out for number one", or look out for the entire membership?

 

[Helmsalee]

As would most junior or middle seniority frac pilots. Or any pilots or any person for that matter. For me it would be God, family, country, profession (call it job, company or whatever). Perhaps you would rearrange the first 3, but I doubt the last would move up.

BTW, it is not always senior screwing junior. I have seen junior throw senior under the bus because they had more power (read votes) and could. I have also seen all work together for the betterment of everyone and this is what we need.

 

[TurboHonda]

As would most junior or middle seniority frac pilots. Or any pilots or any person for that matter. For me it would be God, family, country, profession (call it job, company or whatever). Perhaps you would rearrange the first 3, but I doubt the last would move up.

BTW, it is not always senior screwing junior. I have seen junior throw senior under the bus because they had more power (read votes) and could. I have also seen all work together for the betterment of everyone and this is what we need.

You just described why a contract takes forever to achieve, it it’s achieved at all. Instead of having any semblance of solidarity the pilot group is made up of a bunch of individuals justifying their own selfish agenda. They’re too quick to join a “brotherhood” but don’t really consider their “brothers” brothers and certainly don’t act like a brother themselves.

They fall back on clichés like God, Family, etc., but don’t think of their “brother” as family.

In my generation there was a thing called self respect. It took precedence over almost everything. It couldn’t be bought, taught, faked, or sold. You either had it or you didn’t. Too many pilots don’t even know what I’m talking about. Management knows what I’m talking about and they use it (or the lack of it) to their own advantage.

 

[brokeflyer]

yup....and it could all be avoided if management didn't try to rape a company into the ground and screw its employees.

Unfortunate, but until they treat everyone fair, this is the world we live in.

 

[Fedmagnet]

I hate to see a good thread die.

The sad truth is that Flops pilots had to pursue a contract to protect themselves from Flops Management. The history at Flops has proven that they can not be trusted to do the right thing.

It is even more sad that the Flops Union Leadership has sold out the pilots for personal gain.

Do not expect a palatable contract anytime soon.

 

[993_Pilot]

I hate to see a good thread die...

Give it a rest Dwayne, you have zero credibility anymore.

 

[Fedmagnet]

Go ahead, explain the hostages being abandoned.
"the hostages could not be helped"
"they crossed the line"
"he threw his SIC under the bus"

993, show us some credibility. Is it easier to shoot the messenger?
Tell me again, how soon the contract is coming??

This thread has proven Matt has lost all credibility.

 

[993_Pilot]

Go ahead, explain the hostages being abandoned...

The hostages weren't abandoned, YOU were. You became a liability that the union couldn't afford, because you wouldn't listen to reason, and continually stepped over the line... even if you were well intentioned. Regardless of what your termination letter says, the day you were fired was just the final straw, not the entire reason, and you know it. You can paint yourself as the sacrificial lamb all that you want, but all that you are doing now is hurting the cause, and that is why you have lost all respect and credibility. While you may not agree with everything he has done, Mat is a very sharp and level headed guy. We would be very hard pressed to find a better person to lead us through this negotiation. He has my support, and the support of the union members, so if you can't respect that, then kindly keep your mouth shut. We get it, you're not happy with how your case was handled, but every divisive word is a plus for the side of management. It doesn't concern you any more, let it go.

Edit: btw, we are about on schedule for a first contract. I predict before the new year it will be done, or there won't be a company worth going back to.

 

[shanes123]

well I am not Dwayne and I left willingly. But what Fed Magnet says is true..Mat is spineless and theres many pilots out there that want him gone.. I predict if there ever is a contract. And I hope you guys get one..And a Damn good one..(It will help all of us)..Mat will be quickly voted out..Or he will see his fate and resign..He has hurt your cause with his lack of balls..My own personal observation. from talking to fellow flops pilots on the road and old friends that still are stuck there..

 

[dime line]

Kinda easy from the cheap seats to bust on Matt. We know your not Dwayne, he ran a fine line and got caught (unfortunate but it happened). But did you try to run against Matt, I didnt think so. Did anybody, No, I didn't think so. If Matt lacks "balls" he sure makes up with brains. Matt dosent need to be a bulldog, he has other options for that.

 

[993_Pilot]

Kinda easy from the cheap seats to bust on Matt... Matt dosent need to be a bulldog, he has other options for that.

Well put. The last thing we needed was some hot-head in charge who tried to bully the company early on. The union would have lost all credibility with the NMB and the company. There is a time and a place for everything, and that time is drawing near. Although it would have been great to have a contract 2 years ago, those who did any reading or research expected it would be about a 4 year process from the start. What we want is a good working relationship with management and fair compensation for our services. I expect we'll have it by the end of the year.

 

[GooseHZ]

Poor lil ol TINK TINK

Shane,
I left willingly you stated...I hope you left for a great job. You say Matt has no balls for the job, well sir NO ONE ran for the position when they could have. Shows a lack of balls of ALL the FLOPS pilots who bitch about Matt, they sure as hell didn’t grow a pair and run for his office.... he is the right man for the job. I don’t agree with every decision he makes and when I think I have a better Idea I call....I have that right I am a MIG..... A lot of pilots could have left but didn’t. They stayed to fight for a company they believe in. You left for what ever reason, guess YOU don’t have the BALLS to stay and Fight we all make our choices and you made yours. But please don’t hammer Matt from the side lines when you jumped out of the foxhole to go find your balls.

Watch out for all the FUD coming up guys......some of the of the freeloaders have no where to post but here.
Fly safe Shane

 

[netjetwife]

I'll leave the discussion of balls to those who have them...or should... but I would like to add (from personal observation) that it takes a ton of commitment and lots and lots of time to serve as a Union leader. Those who volunteer often end up with very little time to call their own.

I agree that Matt deserves thanks and recognition for stepping up. I know that leaders also appreciate patience and support while they're in the middle of a big project. When Union leadership is at the bargaining table it's critical that the pilotgroup speaks with one voice. The time for the debate is after the TA is presented for a vote. I know how stressful it can get while you're waiting, but just keep the faith. You're almost there! Best Wishes Always, NJW

 

[shanes123]

goose..I did leave for a great job and a great company and great union leadership..3 things Flops is lacking

thanks for your concern

u fly safe also

 

[Fedmagnet]

Edit: btw, we are about on schedule for a first contract. I predict before the new year it will be done, or there won't be a company worth going back to.

Well, tell the kids there won't be any gifts again this year.
You are correct about the company not being worth coming back to.

 

[Fedmagnet]

Well put. The last thing we needed was some hot-head in charge who tried to bully the company early on. The union would have lost all credibility with the NMB and the company. There is a time and a place for everything, and that time is drawing near. Although it would have been great to have a contract 2 years ago, those who did any reading or research expected it would be about a 4 year process from the start. What we want is a good working relationship with management and fair compensation for our services. I expect we'll have it by the end of the year.

11 more days to go, better pick up the pace.
Abandoning the hostages has not worked well for the IBT 1108 at Flight Options.

Keep it safe.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.

 

[993_Pilot]

11 more days to go, better pick up the pace.
Abandoning the hostages has not worked well for the IBT 1108 at Flight Options.

Keep it safe.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.

You've got me there, it won't be done by the end of the year. Unfortunately there's not a lot we can do about it.

... and last I checked all the people who were dismissed without just cause (RIF'd/No Canpass) all got offered their jobs back. Yes, there are several who were dismissed with cause, but there is only so much the union can do to protect them. I guess you found that out the hard way. It's just too bad that you feel the need to come in here and badmouth the union. It's been over a year hasn't it?... move on with your life.

 

[Fedmagnet]

You've got me there, it won't be done by the end of the year. Unfortunately there's not a lot we can do about it.

... and last I checked all the people who were dismissed without just cause (RIF'd/No Canpass) all got offered their jobs back. Yes, there are several who were dismissed with cause, but there is only so much the union can do to protect them. I guess you found that out the hard way. It's just too bad that you feel the need to come in here and badmouth the union. It's been over a year hasn't it?... move on with your life.

I know one hostage that got his own job back and the Union tried to put him on the "we got his job back for him" list. He shut that down by saying no to being your false poster child.

 

[993_Pilot]

I know one hostage that got his own job back and the Union tried to put him on the "we got his job back for him" list. He shut that down by saying no to being your false poster child.

I've never heard of any such list, but Whoop-de-do, not every former hostage is current on their dues either! Some people will always make excuses. If it's so easy to negotiate your own job back, then why don't you show us all how it's done?

Go on and tell us you don't want it back. Tell us you don't care... If that was true, you wouldn't be here on FI bitching.

 

[dime line]

FedMagnet, you walked a fine line, and then crossed it. You were the "tip of the spear" and that is what got you fired. Nobody abandoned you, you got "yourself fired" by crossing that fine line.

 

[SecondSegment]

Way to go guys.

The guy does what you ask him to and then you throw him under the bus.

Here comes the music........ Oh I love the weasel song....

 

[993_Pilot]

Way to go guys.

The guy does what you ask him to and then you throw him under the bus.

Here comes the music........ Oh I love the weasel song....

No, he went way beyond what was asked of him, and that is where he got himself in trouble. It isn't a personal thing against Fedmagnet, but when he can't recognize that he crossed the line and takes up union bashing as a hobby, then we'll have something to say.

 

[Fedmagnet]

If you are talking about Dwayne Soles crossing the line. Read the report letter that he wrote.
Dwayne was targeted for being identified by the consultant (Dubinski) to the company as being the Industrial Relations for the 1108. Dubinski knew that this position was to remain anonymous for the protection of the person that accepted that position.

Read the report letter and you will see that Dwayne pre-flighted and wrote up the aircraft that proved the serious pencil whipping that occurred the night before at the Flight Options Maintenance base in KTEB. The SIC chose to sleep instead of taking on the SIC duties of pre flight upon arrival at the FBO. Dubinski has spread the rumor that Dwayne through the SIC under the bus yet the SIC never received any disciplinary actions for not performing his job. Dwayne did his job and was fired for a flight that was missed due to the obvious list of discrepancies not being cleared by maintenance.

Read the letter and stop listening to the 1108 consultant that has sold out to Flops management for personal gain.

Don't bother, the 1108 funds are almost gone and it will be all over.

 

[TurboHonda]

Brother Dwayne Soles

I’m not choosing sides or trying to stir the pot. There were mistakes made by everyone and nothing is black and white.

I know Dwayne and he’s a good man. He fought the battle hard and thought he was doing it the way that 1108 wanted. Hell, he’s the father of my avatar.

There’s no question that he lost his job at FLOPS because of the position he held in the union. Whether he was betrayed or thrown under the bus, only the players involved know for sure.

I think it’s time for everyone involved to recognize that Dwayne was a soldier for the cause, and a good one at that.