1108 Union Leadership Abandons Hostages

[brokeflyer]

if the company paid me what the job is worth, etc, then we wouldn't need a union.

It's sad that as highly skilled as we are that we need a union. Unbelivable.

 

[mxpilot2]

When I was there, the majority felt we didn't need a union, we were the highest paid in the industry.

It's a shame that it's declined to this, and that those who were dedicated to Options success have taken such a hit. I really feel for you guys, this sucks.

 

[Phoenix]

if the company paid me what the job is worth, etc, then we wouldn't need a union.

It's sad that as highly skilled as we are that we need a union. Unbelivable.

Yes its sad that a Union became necessary at Options but its even sadder that now that Union leadership does not stand by the pledge that they made to all of our pilots and most importantly our hostages.

 

[GerryG]

From another message board...

Bill, unlike you, I am bound by the Union’s confidentially rules. I will not share publicly the details of a pilot’s termination, or the Union’s record of his or her representation. That makes it difficult for me to defend my actions relative to your unfounded accusations concerning Dwayne’s representation. Notwithstanding your incessant attacks, I will not violate the trust that resides in the office of the Local Union’s President and will continue to honor my obligations to our pilots.

You imply I have made a decision to abandon all of our “hostages.” The fact is the Executive Board will, at the appropriate time, consider each terminated pilot’s case individually and on its own merits. How will we do that? Typically, a “hostage” in “labor-relations speak” refers to an individual who is disciplined or terminated by management due to his Union activism. Of course, management never says it disciplined or terminated a pilot for union activism. Instead, we have to look at the reason management gives for disciplining or firing the pilot. Then we decide whether the evidence supports the reason offered by management.

If management has the evidence to support its actions, the only thing left to do is determine whether pilots who weren’t Union activists and engaged in the same or substantially similar conduct were treated similarly for purposes of discipline. For example, we compare cases of negligence with other cases of negligence, but not cases of intentional conduct and negligence. That’s exactly how arbitrators’ and judges view it, too. If we can’t find evidence of that kind of discrimination, we can’t say the pilot is a hostage. That doesn’t mean we necessarily agree with the discipline or termination imposed upon the pilot. It just means that the evidence doesn’t support the claim that the pilot was disciplined or terminated for union activism.

If we were working under a collective bargaining agreement, and if we could not find evidence of discrimination against a pilot for Union activism but, nonetheless, disagreed with the discipline imposed by management, we could file a grievance and ultimately arbitrate management’s actions. As you well know, we do not yet have a CBA and are “at will” employees without recourse to a fair grievance process.

I respect Dwayne’s past service to our Union; we are all grateful for that service. I wish he had not been terminated. You are correct that many of us previously referred to Dwayne as a hostage. Since that time, we have reviewed the case in the manner I described above. If I thought the evidence supported continuing to label his termination a hostage case, I wouldn’t hesitate to state that opinion. Regrettably, there is no credible evidence to support such a conclusion.

I am convinced, as are the various labor-relations professionals with considerable expertise in pilot disciplinary matters who have reviewed his case, that Dwayne was terminated “for cause” related to his on-the-job performance, and not taken hostage for his Union activism. These opinions are based on the record of the entire case, not on hearsay or partial information, as is your opinion.

I know you disagree. I know Dwayne disagrees. I know you have posted some notes of the incident put together by Dwayne. While Dwayne’s notes offer some information about what happened, they do not tell the whole story of what transpired that day nor what was divulged leading up to and during his investigatory meeting. A considerable amount of relevant information is missing from what you and Dwayne have chosen to make public.

If I thought it would unify this pilot group without hurting Dwayne, I would ask him to sign a release indemnifying the Union and its representatives from any legal action for disclosing personal or confidential information concerning his termination. Thereafter, the Executive Board could publish the entire record of his representation by Local 1108, including notations of Dwayne’s own statements in confidence to his representative and Dwayne’s commentary during the company’s investigatory meeting. But to be honest, I’d probably do my best to talk him out of signing that release.

It wouldn’t be good for Dwayne to have his case aired publicly, and I know it’s not something the overwhelming majority of our pilot group believes is necessary. I am not going to advocate a culture of running mock trials of the pilots I represent on the message boards. In my opinion, far more harm than good will come out of exposing the alleged professional shortcomings of some of us in a manner that can be used against the reputation of our entire pilot group.

You are out of step on this one, Bill. You need to step back and evaluate what you are doing and who it is hurting. If you wish to continue mud slinging and pot stirring for your own, ill-advised reasons that only serve to further divide this pilot group, I cannot stop you. I just will not respond to your irresponsible and unfounded commentary on this matter any longer. Consequently, this ongoing debate with me over the Dwayne’s termination stops right now.

However, I happen to agree with you on one thing: A double standard was in force during the Scheeringa era. Some management friendly pilots were allowed to get away with actions for which other, strong Union supporting pilots might have been disciplined. I would remind you that I spoke out forcefully on that issue at the time. Elimination of favoritism such as we have witnessed is but one of the many reasons we desperately need a CBA that includes at its core the provisions establishing a transparent grievance process with a System Board of Adjustment for resolving disputes with management. A CBA will help considerably to level the playing field.

The events of the past few days have reminded me of the depth of the responsibilities that came with my elected position and the consequences of the decisions I make. Given the magnitude of the economic challenges we all currently face as a nation and a pilot group, frankly, it astonishes me that you would choose this particular time to launch your campaign against this Union’s leadership. You and I talked many times about how unity was the key to beating Scheeringa and his union-busting cronies, as well as the key to getting a contract, no matter who was at the helm of this company. Every action I take, every word I speak, every post I make is in pursuit of keeping this pilot group unified. Going forward, I hope you will re-commit to the same thing and ask yourself who really benefits from division in our ranks.

You have also questioned my leadership on several occasions on this and other message boards. I have also heard you are telling my fellow pilots you believe I don’t have the strength to lead this pilot group because I am responding to the current economic crisis in a way you personally find to be objectionable. I am of the opinion it takes a great deal more strength to make difficult decisions and to change course when new information comes to light or circumstances change, rather than blindly advocating a position that would ultimately harm this pilot group. I will take criticism for that any day. It’s called leadership.

I believe that those in the pilot group who know me well will accept my decisions. Most pilots I know prefer to rely upon and make decisions based on facts and hard evidence, not hearsay and rumor. With or without your approval, we will weather this storm and achieve our goal of a good contract under difficult circumstances.

Capt. Mat Slinghoff, President
Local 1108

 

[Phoenix]

Matt

I am aware that you have left XXXXX and XXXXX hanging on the possibility that you might try and recover their jobs, However considering how easily XXXXX went from hostage to indefensible, I consider XXXXX and XXXXX cases very much in questions. Hence my call to have all of the hostages returned.
I will forward your post to XXXXX and ask if he will give you permission to release what ever he did that was so egregious thereby enabling you to pull back that vial of confidentiality. This will give us all the opportunity to discover what line he crossed that exceeded the line crossed by other pilots. If he decides not to have his information released that will end this discussion at least as far as Soles is concerned.

Thanks for responding
Bill

 

[Spackler]

Why not run along and play now Bill? The big people are talking.

​

 

[Phoenix]

Response to Union President

subjectRE: president post & my response
mailed-bygmail.com
signed-bygmail.com
hide details 11:09 AM (1 hour ago) Reply

Matt

The account of events 9/17/2007 and 9/28/2007 that Bill posted for me on the IBT board is the total story as I know it. If there is other information that you have pertaining to my actions on this date you have no confidentiality issues to share them with me. In fact I would think that you would be duty bound to share any information you have relative to my termination with me. Please send me all information relative to my case that explains your reasoning for now not recognizing me as a hostage.

Dwayne

 

[waka]

Speaking of idiots and name calling, good morning to you Waka. I used to back up every claim with documentation and links, but it's not worth it anymore because ignorant posters like you stick your head in the sand and let other people think for you.

:laugh:



No, you haven't backed up your any of your stupid claims. No, links to unionfacts.org (the site that does YOUR thinking for you (btw; nice steal on words.....even drives the point that you're spoonfed your thoughts even more)) site doesn't count.

Your strategy; Ignore all valid questions and just keep spewing your drivel. You only delude yourself into thinking that you have answered because of your agenda. This is exactly why you're on ignore status by more people on this site than anyone else.....even Skanza! This self-delusionary behavior of yours is borderline sociopathic. Seriously, you need professional psychiatric help.

Your desperation for any shred of validity shows more clearly with every post. You failed as a professional pilot and are angry so, now you seek ego and identity through your brainless and ill conceived opinions, selling out the very profession at which you failed. The funny thing about it is that you're also a failure at your personal anti-union crusade/vendetta. Your past career miscarrage is not the fault of the profession or unions, it is only yours......pathetic.

Good riddance.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I certainly don't need your validation

:laugh:



No, you haven't backed up your any of your stupid claims. No, links to unionfacts.org (the site that does YOUR thinking for you (btw; nice steal on words.....even drives the point that you're spoonfed your thoughts even more)) site doesn't count.

Your strategy; Ignore all valid questions and just keep spewing your drivel. You only delude yourself into thinking that you have answered because of your agenda. This is exactly why you're on ignore status by more people on this site than anyone else.....even Skanza! This self-delusionary behavior of yours is borderline sociopathic. Seriously, you need professional psychiatric help.

Your desperation for any shred of validity shows more clearly with every post. You failed as a professional pilot and are angry so, now you seek ego and identity through your brainless and ill conceived opinions, selling out the very profession at which you failed. The funny thing about it is that you're also a failure at your personal anti-union crusade/vendetta. Your past career miscarrage is not the fault of the profession or unions, it is only yours......pathetic.

Good riddance.

Too funny. I have to laugh at you rather than with you on this post.

I stopped posting links a long time ago, and the unionfacts.com website provides links to reputable articles which union members would prefer to ignore because the truth really hurts.

My opinions are not spoonfed. My opinions are independent and reflect that of management at any union based company. I write what others won't post.

You just can't believe how much your union and brethern are despised by your non-union coworkers and management that want no part of you. They live under the threat each and every day of the unions shutting down their company and changing their way of life due to the greed and selfishness of the mob.

I have encouraged you and the others to place me on ignore. I expect it, want it and would be disappointed if you didn't.

Why? Because it reinforces my opinion that union members do not have the ability to listen to others that oppose thier views.

I have no desperation, no agenda and desire except to expose the underbelly of this "stong union" concept which has historically destroyed companies, careers and families of those that are and are not union members. There is no crusade here, and I didn't fail as a professional pilot.

As a matter of fact, more than most I have been highly successful in my career because I followed my own lead independently without the need for a mob to negotiate my pay for me. I stand alone and on my own in my career, something that no union member can ever state.

I have enough supportive PMs that come across to know that I'm stating what other's believe is valid opinion which they won't support openly due to the threatening behavior of union activists.

I certainly don't need your validation to know that I speak the truth and have validity in my opinions.

 

[brokeflyer]

I have no problem with someone who opposes my views, the problem is you don't respect everyone elses views. That is why you are not liked here.

If you would respect our views about what we are doing we would'nt have to smack your azz down all the time.

You have shown that you dont like unions, fine. You don't work at a union company anymore, fine. You are disliked because you can't keep your mouth shut about things that you have no control over.

If the company would pay me what the job is worth then there would be no need for a union.

 

[BornAgainPagan]

I have encouraged you and the others to place me on ignore. I expect it, want it and would be disappointed if you didn't.

Why? Because it reinforces my opinion that union members do not have the ability to listen to others that oppose thier views.

What a load of horsecrap! People don't listen to you because you're a certifiable whackjob. There is a BIG difference between having a cogent and well thought out opinion and shear stupidity. Yours is clearly the latter.

I have enough supportive PMs that come across to know that I'm stating what other's believe is valid opinion which they won't support openly due to the threatening behavior of union activists.

Oh yeah? I'm sure there are people that send supportive messages to Louis Farrakhan or Rush Limbaugh and even they feel they get the warm and fuzzies. Opposing valid opinions are fine. However, you're just a foolish radical extremist.

 

[Fedmagnet]

I hear that an IBT1108 consultant has been dry calling line pilots and spreading lies about the hostages to defend the union leaderships decision to abandon them.
This consultant sure seems like a busy guy and gets paid by the hour! I wonder how much Flops pays him?

 

[AceCrackshot]

When I was there, the majority felt we didn't need a union, we were the highest paid in the industry.

It's a shame that it's declined to this, and that those who were dedicated to Options success have taken such a hit. I really feel for you guys, this sucks.

Yep, I remember Engine Plug Ed and Bill Bilger telling me, to my face, "We'll match NetJets" "We're talking about what we need to give you guys to avoid the Teamsters..." when there was never any intention of matching NJ.

The fact that the whole "Matching NJ's contract" was huge stalling tactic was admitted to me, by a senior management member.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Too funny. I have to laugh at you rather than with you on this post.

I stopped posting links a long time ago, and the unionfacts.com website provides links to reputable articles which union members would prefer to ignore because the truth really hurts.

My opinions are not spoonfed. My opinions are independent and reflect that of management at any union based company. I write what others won't post.

You just can't believe how much your union and brethern are despised by your non-union coworkers and management that want no part of you. They live under the threat each and every day of the unions shutting down their company and changing their way of life due to the greed and selfishness of the mob.

I have encouraged you and the others to place me on ignore. I expect it, want it and would be disappointed if you didn't.

Why? Because it reinforces my opinion that union members do not have the ability to listen to others that oppose thier views.

I have no desperation, no agenda and desire except to expose the underbelly of this "stong union" concept which has historically destroyed companies, careers and families of those that are and are not union members. There is no crusade here, and I didn't fail as a professional pilot.

As a matter of fact, more than most I have been highly successful in my career because I followed my own lead independently without the need for a mob to negotiate my pay for me. I stand alone and on my own in my career, something that no union member can ever state.

I have enough supportive PMs that come across to know that I'm stating what other's believe is valid opinion which they won't support openly due to the threatening behavior of union activists.

I certainly don't need your validation to know that I speak the truth and have validity in my opinions.

No value added.

 

[slowjet]

No wonder there is no contract yet. Caving is not going to make it happen. If a contract is ever sent out for a vote, I can imagine what it will look like after all the caving.

The saying: LEAD, FOLLOW or GET OUT OF THE WAY.
"FOLLOW" should not apply to the President of the 1108.
The President should LEAD or GET OUT OF THE WAY.

CONTRACT NOW!

Why don"t you stop your crying and run for office if you"re so sheeit hot. Bet you are one of those types that wants a raise and all the protections of a contract but won't lift a finger to help. But, you'll take it when we have a contract.

 

[Fedmagnet]

Why don"t you stop your crying and run for office if you"re so sheeit hot. Bet you are one of those types that wants a raise and all the protections of a contract but won't lift a finger to help. But, you'll take it when we have a contract.

Thanks for the idea!
"Fedmagnet for President"

I will do more than lift a finger!
If I became the President, the consultant would not run the Union.

How is the "being patient and following managements desires" working out for you?

 

[B19 Flyer]

What a load of horsecrap! People don't listen to you because you're a certifiable whackjob. There is a BIG difference between having a cogent and well thought out opinion and shear stupidity. Yours is clearly the latter.

Oh yeah? I'm sure there are people that send supportive messages to Louis Farrakhan or Rush Limbaugh and even they feel they get the warm and fuzzies. Opposing valid opinions are fine. However, you're just a foolish radical extremist.

Why am I an extremist? Because I oppose the union view?

Any individual that is willing to put a company out of business and place the welfare of other workers at risk because the company is not willing to meet the demands of a particular workgroup is selfish, egotistical and ignorant. Just because some are silent doesn't mean that their opinions are any different than mine.

I'm anything but foolish, and I write what most think but won't say out loud.

I'm not opposed to high pay or fair work rules.

I am opposed to a CBA that restricts companies from doing business and expanding, scope clauses and the slow reaction that unions give to slipping economic climates that place jobs at risk, especially those workers that are at the mercy of any particular organized work group.

I'm opposed to the union concept of letting the bottom of the seniority order go to preserve high wages of the rest during times of poor economic climates.

I'm opposed to the turmoil unions bring through the negotiating process and the lingering effects throughout the organization.

I'm opposed to the union thinking that the CBA is only there to protect the union and when the union member wants something extra that protects the company and doesn't get it the whining that goes along with it.

I'm opposed to the damage I've witnessed to families of union members during work actions when they discover that strike pay won't cover the basic Cobra Insurance and the membership wasn't informed.

I could continue on this list but union members only see what they want to see and can't believe that anybody would ever disagree.

No company begins with a union, the union only comes on board because a small group within the company thinks that they can do better than the ownership that began the company.

Union members don't believe in the free market economy when it comes to wages.
They feel that the only way to make more money is to hold the company hostage and make the rest of the employees suffer.

 

[Fozzy]

So if we were paid less, the company may not lay off employee's? Really? So they are going to pay people to just sit around and do nothing? If a company is overstaffed why would the keep paying idled workers?
I would be like a contractor paying carpenters (sub's) when there is no building to be done.
I just don't understand the logic.

It seems I would be taking a unnecessary pay cut with the same end result. Seems like a bad personal financial decision.

I have had my FI fix for now. I think I will make this a drive-by.

 

[gunfyter]

I gotta agree with 19.

Unions suck.

Why should furloughs go by seniority order? The company can make more money furloughing more senior people who have invested More of their lives with a company.

Better to hire, use people up and then furlough when their pay grows too much higher than someone we can fetch off the street.

Why should people feel more secure in their jobs at a company as they invest more of their lives into it? Better to keep them more worried and on their toes. In fear always for their jobs.

Also ... wont it be cheaper for the company if they only hire unmarried males ... Why bear the cost of medical benefits to people who have families or might become pregnant?

Older folks ... they get sick more often. Should be furloughed first.

Yes I gotta agree with 19.

 

[slowjet]

Thanks for the idea!
"Fedmagnet for President"

I will do more than lift a finger!
If I became the President, the consultant would not run the Union.

How is the "being patient and following managements desires" working out for you?

Works just fine for me.
I want a president who uses his head to think- not crying and do the best job for us so we can have something worth voting "yes" the first time around- not a substandard piece of crap contract that has to be re-negotiated.
What are you going to do- run into Ken's office and make demands? We'll see how far that get's us.
Being "patient" is a something you have to endure on occasion. But, you have to be a mature person to have it.
End of discussion.