1108 Union Leadership Abandons Hostages

[shanes123]

Let me start by saying I was a big Union supporter when I was there..
However lets pay our dues and follow the weak leadership blindly into bankruptcy..That makes perfect sense..Some people just are not able to think for themselves..Guess some people need something to believe in regardless..Flops 1108 had a strong leader..that is clearly no longer the case..From what I hear most pilots are fed up with the Union as well as management. (I am not a B19 or Scumza that thinks management is gonna saves all of you) The pilots have sent a message to Flops when they voted in the Union..Now they need to send a message to the Union..at least they might have a decent pay wage for a few months before HIG drops the hammer..

 

[Narrow Bridge]

Don't lose sight of the prize. I am going to go out on a limb here and predict we will have a contract soon or flops will be one of the 9,000-12,000 businesses filing bankruptcy in 2009. Fly the pledge and pay your dues.

What prize are you talking about? Wake up from your dream. If you think we are getting any payraise when this is finished, your nuts. Turn on your television dude, it isn't going to happen.

 

[Fedmagnet]

Substantiation

Here is one email from a string sent to many Flight Options pilots:

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Mat Slinghoff <[email protected]> wrote:

[ex-flops pilot],

On several occasions we have approached senior management, including the new administration, on behalf of all the pilots, you included, who were terminated for various reasons since the Union was voted in. We were successful in getting one terminated pilot reinstated, while another terminated pilot settled his dispute with the company. That settlement did not include his reinstatement. Management has made it clear they have no interest in returning the remaining terminated pilots to employment at Flight Options under any circumstances. I am sorry, but their is nothing further we can do on your behalf at this company.

Mat

 

[shanes123]

that letter from your leader speaks Volumes..Follow them Blindly and keep paying your dues

 

[993_Pilot]

if all else fails call the "SHAMWOW" guy to negotiate for ya.....

We already thought of that, but it turns out that he's related to Ricci !

 

[Capt Spike]

Rotten!

You have nothing better to do? Negativity, complaining, that's all you are capable!

I do not see you trying to get involved and
coming up with solutions, taking up a leadership role and attempting to make the changes you are so eager to mouth!

The union is not perfect. Remember, everyone there is volunteering. You are complaining about it but what would have been if we had zero representation?
I bet the furloughed would have been the higher salaries and seniority would have meant crap. Just like at Shares and XO Jet. That captain that got fired? Even he got due process with a steward right beside him even though his file was 10 inches thick of his own doing. There are and have been hostages; he is not one of them!

Come on! Act like a decent person, come and help instead of throwing more gasoline into the fire. We all know how cohesive we need to me right now.

 

[TurboHonda]

You have nothing better to do? Negativity, complaining, that's all you are capable!

I do not see you trying to get involved and
coming up with solutions, taking up a leadership role and attempting to make the changes you are so eager to mouth!

The union is not perfect. Remember, everyone there is volunteering. You are complaining about it but what would have been if we had zero representation?
I bet the furloughed would have been the higher salaries and seniority would have meant crap. Just like at Shares and XO Jet. That captain that got fired? Even he got due process with a steward right beside him even though his file was 10 inches thick of his own doing. There are and have been hostages; he is not one of them!

Come on! Act like a decent person, come and help instead of throwing more gasoline into the fire. We all know how cohesive we need to me right now.

Bullshirt!! This is where I part company with everyone. I know and respect both the MEC and the pilot in question. If he is not a hostage, no one is. If this is the unraveling of everything we’ve fought for, I’ll just say good night and God bless.

 

[FR8DOG777]

O.K. narrow mind, you sufficiently pi$$ed me off so I'll bite. First of all I don't watch tv as I have better things to do with my time. Secondly, this is not the only thing I am capable of doing to put food on the table. I will define what the PRIZE means to me.

The PRIZE is banishing an unconscionable management team

The PRIZE is shutting down a company that wishes to subsidize its operations with pilots wages

The PRIZE is running into a fellow brother in arms ten years from now and looking him/her in the eye with the full respect we took a stand and fought long and hard side by side to make things better

The PRIZE is looking back with the self pride I took in ensuring that the precious cargo I had on board (our owners) were flying on an airplane that was fit for flight while our management would have them flying on one that was not

The PRIZE is not living life with FEAR as the determining factor of my thoughts, deeds, and actions

The Prize is sending a message to management that we know the position we are in as a company and will do what is required of us, however we will not be compensated less than a competitor flying a turbo-prop

The situation that currently faces the company and the union is ripe for a catastrophic conclusion, but bailing out on the union is at best a cop out. You better be prepared for the doors to close tomorrow. The ball is now in the companies court. If they want another war then it is war they will have. If they choose to seek a fair and peacefull resolution then they will have the full support of every line pilot union or not. Time will soon tell my friend, as for now Mat and the negotiating commitee has my full support.

 

[dime line]

O.K. narrow mind, you sufficiently pi$$ed me off so I'll bite. First of all I don't watch tv as I have better things to do with my time. Secondly, this is not the only thing I am capable of doing to put food on the table. I will define what the PRIZE means to me.

The PRIZE is banishing an unconscionable management team

The PRIZE is shutting down a company that wishes to subsidize its operations with pilots wages

The PRIZE is running into a fellow brother in arms ten years from now and looking him/her in the eye with the full respect we took a stand and fought long and hard side by side to make things better

The PRIZE is looking back with the self pride I took in ensuring that the precious cargo I had on board (our owners) were flying on an airplane that was fit for flight while our management would have them flying on one that was not

The PRIZE is not living life with FEAR as the determining factor of my thoughts, deeds, and actions

The Prize is sending a message to management that we know the position we are in as a company and will do what is required of us, however we will not be compensated less than a competitor flying a turbo-prop

The situation that currently faces the company and the union is ripe for a catastrophic conclusion, but bailing out on the union is at best a cop out. You better be prepared for the doors to close tomorrow. The ball is now in the companies court. If they want another war then it is war they will have. If they choose to seek a fair and peacefull resolution then they will have the full support of every line pilot union or not. Time will soon tell my friend, as for now Mat and the negotiating commitee has my full support.

Well Said

 

[Fedmagnet]

Then and Now

Then:

From: Mat Slinghoff [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:05 AM
To: [removed]
Cc: [ex-Ffops pilot]
Subject: Fwd: Resume
[removed],

Here is [ex-flops pilot] resume. [ex-flops pilot] was our Industrial Relations Chairman and was terminated from Flight Options under questionable circumstances. We consider him to be a hostage. As we discussed on the phone, he would like to apply for employment at [removed]. Anything you could do to expedite this process would be much appreciated. Please let me know what you can come up with.

Mat
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7/8/08
Notes from the P2P Meeting:
“All hostages will be coming back one way or another, including the canpass hostages.”


Now:

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Mat Slinghoff <[email protected]> wrote:

[ex-flops pilot],

On several occasions we have approached senior management, including the new administration, on behalf of all the pilots, you included, who were terminated for various reasons since the Union was voted in. We were successful in getting one terminated pilot reinstated, while another terminated pilot settled his dispute with the company. That settlement did not include his reinstatement. Management has made it clear they have no interest in returning the remaining terminated pilots to employment at Flight Options under any circumstances. I am sorry, but their is nothing further we can do on your behalf at this company.

Mat

 

[Fedmagnet]

Management has made it clear they have no interest in returning the remaining terminated pilots to employment at Flight Options under any circumstances. I am sorry, but their is nothing further we can do on your behalf at this company.[/size]

Mat

No wonder there is no contract yet. Caving is not going to make it happen. If a contract is ever sent out for a vote, I can imagine what it will look like after all the caving.

The saying: LEAD, FOLLOW or GET OUT OF THE WAY.
"FOLLOW" should not apply to the President of the 1108.
The President should LEAD or GET OUT OF THE WAY.

CONTRACT NOW!

 

[shanes123]

How anyone cant see that Your 1108 Leader is no leader and doesnt have the guts to take this fight to the end is beyond me..He has sold out the pilot group. It is a sad state of affairs over there. sadly the company is doomed to lack of leadership and the Union is doomed do to lack of leadership.
But there will always be a few that will walk blindly of the plank. I hope theres enough good pilots left at Flops to take there union and company back. However I believe it is way to late..Mis management that has been hit with a bad economy. I think that one two combination is to much this time for Flops to take

 

[skanza]

O.K. narrow mind, you sufficiently pi$$ed me off so I'll bite. First of all I don't watch tv as I have better things to do with my time. Secondly, this is not the only thing I am capable of doing to put food on the table. I will define what the PRIZE means to me.

The PRIZE is banishing an unconscionable management team -And replacing them with what? Another management team that you'll hate simply for the fact that they're management? Get over it, you don't work in a factory punching out widgets and then going home to kick the dog, yell at the wife and drink cheap beer.

The PRIZE is shutting down a company that wishes to subsidize its operations with pilots wages - This makes no sense you stomping, pouting, 4 year old. I think its quite selfish to want to shut a company down because of your intolerance and self-important view of the way things are done. If you hate it, then leave, some people want to succeed here....

The PRIZE is running into a fellow brother in arms ten years from now and looking him/her in the eye with the full respect we took a stand and fought long and hard side by side to make things better - Brother in arms? What is this, some kind of silly fraternity for those who can't get accepted elsewhere?

The PRIZE is looking back with the self pride I took in ensuring that the precious cargo I had on board (our owners) were flying on an airplane that was fit for flight while our management would have them flying on one that was not - Again, with the false allogations of management desiring harm to come to the ones that pay the bills. Where's the proof?

The PRIZE is not living life with FEAR as the determining factor of my thoughts, deeds, and actions - Fear of what?

The Prize is sending a message to management that we know the position we are in as a company and will do what is required of us, however we will not be compensated less than a competitor flying a turbo-prop - Send that message one 501 at a time, right?

The situation that currently faces the company and the union is ripe for a catastrophic conclusion, but bailing out on the union is at best a cop out. You better be prepared for the doors to close tomorrow. The ball is now in the companies court. If they want another war then it is war they will have. If they choose to seek a fair and peacefull resolution then they will have the full support of every line pilot union or not. Time will soon tell my friend, as for now Mat and the negotiating commitee has my full support.

First prize goes to M**

 

[Frac Cap]

well said fr8dog.

I couldn't have said it better. I don't want to be out of a job just like anyone else. But the day of the subsidized travel for the rich need to be over, one way or another. We can't provide the first class service that our owners pay for, and deserve, when we are perpetually demoralized, knowing we are the worst paid pilots in our industry. Even flying a single engine turbo prop for planesence would put more food on the table than at flops.

Management says we need to love our passengers, well I say management needs to show me the money. Then when the catering gets screwed up, scheduling screws up, management screws up, It will be my job, my goal, in my job description to make sure the pax never know their trip was in jeopardy of being less than perfect. Until then, show me a contract.

And as for Narrow Bridge, you have a Narrow Mind if you think we are going to settle for less than a fair contract. We, the union members control the vote. The non paying pilots don't get to vote on a weak contract.

 

[jetwash]

The topics of hostages and who is allowed to vote on a TA are now being talked about which has not been brought up before in this process.

No matter what your opinion is on this matter the management and the Union leadership are going to have to sell the TA only to the pilots who are allowed to vote!

Just because a TA is reached between the company and the Union leadership it does not necessarily mean that it will be passed if it does not include the hostages or is an inferior contract in the eyes of the pilots who are hard core union supporters/ members in good standing.

I just hope the management and the union leaders don’t underestimate the determination of the voting pilots of which I am one.

 

[Frac Cap]

yea, what he said!

 

[993_Pilot]

The fact of the matter is that if anyone screws up badly enough, there is nothing our union can do to save you. I firmly believe that the union leadership will fight to return any wrongfully terminated union member. I personally know and like one of the individual "hostages" concerned. He may have had a target on his back for being a strong union supporter and "flying the pledge", but in the end, he screwed up. The circumstances, as I know them in this one case, makes it near impossible for the union to defend. That is a shame, because this person was an ardent and tireless supporter of the union. I don't have much knowledge of the other cases, but I think some of you need to cut your leadership a break here and give them the benefit of the doubt. If they weren't bound by confidentiality agreements and could tell you all of the facts of each case, you might have a different outlook.

 

[FRLWD]

No matter what your opinion is on this matter the management and the Union leadership are going to have to sell the TA only to the pilots who are allowed to vote!

This is a good point. In the end the only ones who truely have a voice are members in good standing.

Members in good standing are the ony ones who can cast a vote for leadership, and for that matter are the only ones who can run for a leadership position and effect change in their union.

Ultimately the only ones voting for or against a CBA will be those who are dedicated enough to pay dues.

 

[Phoenix]

The fact of the matter is that if anyone screws up badly enough, there is nothing our union can do to save you. I firmly believe that the union leadership will fight to return any wrongfully terminated union member. I personally know and like one of the individual "hostages" concerned. He may have had a target on his back for being a strong union supporter and "flying the pledge", but in the end, he screwed up. The circumstances, as I know them in this one case, makes it near impossible for the union to defend. That is a shame, because this person was an ardent and tireless supporter of the union. I don't have much knowledge of the other cases, but I think some of you need to cut your leadership a break here and give them the benefit of the doubt. If they weren't bound by confidentiality agreements and could tell you all of the facts of each case, you might have a different outlook.

I agree with you to the extent that there are some offenses that exceeds a threshold of defensible. I'm not saying that there may have been some wrong doing or mismanagement of a situation with 2 of the hostages. but let me ask you a question

Unless you have been living under a rock you heard about the X management type pilot that smoked an engine when he started it with the plugs in, grinding off more then a inch of the edge, he subsequently lied about doing it, and turned it over to another crew to continue to operate. This pilot received no CGF1 or any discipline. Do you think that any of our hostages possible offenses measures up to this. I think not. If that man has a job and continues to work at options our hostages surely should have their jobs back, don't you think?

Now lets throw into that thought the fact that these hostages were known strong union supporters. In fact one of them was outed by our highly paid Union adviser to management as our Industrial Relations Committee Chairman just after this person put together the events that the Union had at NBAA. Guess what just weeks later he is fired for very shady reasons. Another of the hostages who is our Membership Committee Chairman and is confronted by a passenger who is a belligerent drunk and had gone through a half bottle of Scotch while waiting to depart. When he raises this as a concern to management in stead of support he is singled out as being a nut case. His mistake was not forcing his PIC to call for a breath test. That would have been the smoking gun he needed. Both of these hostages were fired within days of each other just before Christmas. It was for no other reason then to send a message to pilots during peak travel.

My point is that regardless of the alleged offense of these hostages they in no way exceed the unprofessional, unsafe, stupid, illegal actions of a management pilot still employed at options.

They should get their jobs back.

 

[shanes123]

Phoenix is correct. The FARs state that you will not board any pax if he appears to be intoxicated or on drugs unless he is a medical patient. I was unaware of this incident. But why wasnt this reported to the feds. Why wasnt the management pilot reported to the feds? (there should still be a investigation done on him)What is this union leader doing/thinking? Is he on managements payroll now? From a outsider looking in it seems that Flops union has ended up in a very bad place. I feel for all the hard working pilots there many of my friends that have held out hope for 3+ years that they would have a fair pay wage and reasonable work rules. I can only imagine how hard it is to work and wait that long for something only to be let down and never reach your goal. I sound like a broken record im sure but what a disgrace this Union leader is to all those that have sacrificed so much. In the words of Forrest Gump...."Thats all I have to say about that"