AirTran pilots will own the SW upgrades

[-9Capt]

Nobody is going to fall for that BS again, especially with the benefit of hindsight. Make threats and ultimatums during negotiations then turn around and call it "hard negotiations" during the ensuing arbitration.

 

[madjack]

It's gonna be HAL

 

[Dan Roman]

It's gonna be HAL

Nice try! SWA really needs a relatively small International hub in the middle of the pacific that doesn't complement the SWA route structure at all, a fleet of Airbus's that SWA couldn't replace and labor unrest when all the SWA pilots get fenced out of the widebodies and inter-island! Other than that I'm sure it would be a great idea.

 

[Dan Roman]

And yes I knew you were jerking my chain!

 

[PCL_128]

It will depend on who is acquired


Muse Air
Morris
ATA

AirTran

.?

There aren't really that many options for you. JetBlue would be a disaster. SWA can't figure out how to manage a small fleet of 717s, let alone a larger fleet of Airbuses and Embraers. Alaska is too expensive and not interested. Spirit is drastically overpriced and also has a fleet of Airbuses. Etc.

Personally, I don't think another merger/acquisition is in the works or even on the distant horizon. And that's good news for AirTran pilots, because another merger would be a nightmare for them.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

For 2012 - Match 9.3% plus Profit Sharing 6.2% = 15.5%.

For 2013 - Match 9.3% plus Profit Sharing >10% (estimated) will equal a combination above 20%.

Probably not a losing deal.

For this year, it probably will be a wash (if you contributed anyway whether the employer did or not). If you didn't contribute yourself, AT's b-fund was a much better deal without a doubt and, even if you contributed the max, AT's deal could still be better. You got the percentage of your wages each paycheck even after you hit the max. Wn only pays til you max out, then uses your money from then on until March (I think) when they give you your 401k clean up check. Profit sharing is even worse, they hang onto your money for six months before it goes into your account. Even Wave and PCL understand the time value of money and would understand that having it now pays better than getting it later. I'd much rather have a fixed b-fund % as I earned it than have to use record profits to justify profit sharing.

I understand that's the way you've always done it so you don't know any different and even if there's a better way, it may not be worth the negotiating capital to improve it.

 

[madjack]

Tom W on our NC is pushing a B fund...mgmt needs to realize the pilots group is not like any other, the "me too" in re to i401k match and retirement benefits has kept SWA pilots behind in the industry.,,,that will make it harder for SWA to recruit quality pilots....

 

[Ty Webb]

the "me too" in re to i401k match and retirement benefits has kept SWA pilots behind in the industry.,,,that will make it harder for SWA to recruit quality pilots....

It's already so tough to recruit quality pilots that they had to go and buy 1800 of 'em.

 

[redflyer65]

For this year, it probably will be a wash (if you contributed anyway whether the employer did or not). If you didn't contribute yourself, AT's b-fund was a much better deal without a doubt and, even if you contributed the max, AT's deal could still be better. You got the percentage of your wages each paycheck even after you hit the max. Wn only pays til you max out, then uses your money from then on until March (I think) when they give you your 401k clean up check. Profit sharing is even worse, they hang onto your money for six months before it goes into your account. Even Wave and PCL understand the time value of money and would understand that having it now pays better than getting it later. I'd much rather have a fixed b-fund % as I earned it than have to use record profits to justify profit sharing.

I understand that's the way you've always done it so you don't know any different and even if there's a better way, it may not be worth the negotiating capital to improve it.

Let me clean up your post a little Luv.

Yes we do have to put in a minimum of 10% to get the match of 9.3%. That's were a B-fund is better because you don't HAVE to do anything. You'd be an idiot not to anyway, but I guess there could be extenuating circumstances that might come into play.

After you hit the max (17,500 or 23k above age 50), there is no 'waiting for your money' the match continues throughout the year. Captain's can max out all IRS limits and sometimes get a 'overage check' down the line.

Your right about Profit Sharing being 9 months arrears, but it's better than not getting squat.

Do we need to make some improvements? Absolutely and the NC is on it. I would rather have a B-fund like Delta with higher caps for the Captains.

All and all, it's not a bad problem to have...

I believe we may hit 12% profit sharing this year. That number for me would be north of 20k....just in PS alone. Combined with 34k in the 401k plan. Total for 2014 will be around 54k for a low level FO. How does that compare to AirTran?

 

[zman]

I was told by a SWAPA rep that they do want to drop the match and go for a B-fund that Delta and United have of 16%. I believe American is at 16% as well. If Swapa cannot fix reserve, retirement and pay when the company is posting record profits for the past 5 quarters then it is truly a useless union.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Let me clean up your post a little Luv.

Yes we do have to put in a minimum of 10% to get the match of 9.3%. That's were a B-fund is better because you don't HAVE to do anything. You'd be an idiot not to anyway, but I guess there could be extenuating circumstances that might come into play.

After you hit the max (17,500 or 23k above age 50), there is no 'waiting for your money' the match continues throughout the year. Captain's can max out all IRS limits and sometimes get a 'overage check' down the line.

Your right about Profit Sharing being 9 months arrears, but it's better than not getting squat.

Do we need to make some improvements? Absolutely and the NC is on it. I would rather have a B-fund like Delta with higher caps for the Captains.

All and all, it's not a bad problem to have...

I believe we may hit 12% profit sharing this year. That number for me would be north of 20k....just in PS alone. Combined with 34k in the 401k plan. Total for 2014 will be around 54k for a low level FO. How does that compare to AirTran?

Glad to hear it is different after crossing the partition. On the FL side, the match stops when you max out and you get a clean up contribution only up to 17.5k in late march. That's it, no match or contribution on the rest of your earnings past the time you max out.

 

[madjack]

I agree Ty, all the FATs I have flown with are great pilots! I meant in the next decade...

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I agree Ty, all the FATs I have flown with are great pilots! I meant in the next decade...

There aren't any FAT captains yet????? Do you mean jumpseat riders going to work in your senior bases ? Or are you a 9 year f/o that just upgraded?

 

[Ty Webb]

I agree Ty, all the FATs I have flown with are great pilots! I meant in the next decade...

Glad to hear it, MJ. I think the Pilot Groups at both airlines are probably more similar than anyone suspected. . . . Hopefully, at some point, everyone will figure that out.

 

[PCL_128]

Tom W on our NC is pushing a B fund...mgmt needs to realize the pilots group is not like any other, the "me too" in re to i401k match and retirement benefits has kept SWA pilots behind in the industry.,,,that will make it harder for SWA to recruit quality pilots....

Yep. Retirement and reserve work rules are where the SWAPA contract is most deficient. Those are the areas to focus on.