Flex's new bases

[GooseHZ]

Twa
No matter how much you try and convince yourself you have no say. None. ZERO....all you have is an illusion of choice. Nothing more. It doesn't effect you so you don't care. You sir are living in a dream world and are to high on KR Kool-aid to have a decent debate with.

Bless your heart.

 

[John MClain]

Drinking, no....thanks.

We would have to vote out a new domicile if we vote the new system in. They can only add domiciles without a vote.



Im going to have to call Bulls#$t on this Sir. Unless your position within the Waterview Boys Club gives you acess to additional information that us average Joe Smoe's don't get then you are sadly mistaken/mis-guided. You need to take a look at your all powerful employee agreement again and while your at it the domicile proposal as well.

Bases/Domiciles are NOT votable issues and are not the reason a vote was called. The way that crewmembers schedules in these secondary bases are going to be constructed is the only reason. I know it was written in the proposal with the word ADD only but if you actually think the company can't and won't delete from the list when and if they feel it necessary, then you are extremely naive or are completely drunk on the Richardson Kool-aid.

Cheers

 

[doh]

John, I agree that the bases aren't part of the vote in our agreement. But when I look at the list, I don't see an airport that will lose service. So why would they take away bases? That is where I think the argument is weak.

 

[V1 Rotate]

You didn't have those bases, but you didn't have 8 day rotation. Going from 6 to 8 is giving up 2 days

No, it's not. If you do the average 16 day schedule you're still on the road for 16 days. Only the length of the rotation changed, not the time away. Why is that so hard to understand? I'm not excited about doing a possible eight day but the reality for me is that I will get three extra nights at home because I won't be driving down the night before three times a month. In fact, if I do two eight day rotations instead of three shorter ones, I'll be in a hotel only 14 nights per 28 bid period versus 16 or more and my drive is cut in half. Explain to me why that's bad?

 

[V1 Rotate]

Drinking, no....thanks.

We would have to vote out a new domicile if we vote the new system in. They can only add domiciles without a vote.



Im going to have to call Bulls#$t on this Sir. Unless your position within the Waterview Boys Club gives you acess to additional information that us average Joe Smoe's don't get then you are sadly mistaken/mis-guided. You need to take a look at your all powerful employee agreement again and while your at it the domicile proposal as well.

Bases/Domiciles are NOT votable issues and are not the reason a vote was called. The way that crewmembers schedules in these secondary bases are going to be constructed is the only reason. I know it was written in the proposal with the word ADD only but if you actually think the company can't and won't delete from the list when and if they feel it necessary, then you are extremely naive or are completely drunk on the Richardson Kool-aid.

Cheers

In the past when bases were closed all those guys were allowed to be grandfathered in and have been in those bases ever since. At one time, in more recent history, they weren't hiring into the ONT base but no one was forced to leave there either.

 

[slowtation capt]

No, it's not. If you do the average 16 day schedule you're still on the road for 16 days. Only the length of the rotation changed, not the time away. Why is that so hard to understand? I'm not excited about doing a possible eight day but the reality for me is that I will get three extra nights at home because I won't be driving down the night before three times a month. In fact, if I do two eight day rotations instead of three shorter ones, I'll be in a hotel only 14 nights per 28 bid period versus 16 or more and my drive is cut in half. Explain to me why that's bad?

I didn't say anything about working more in a month. I didn't say anything about the whole deal being bad. All I am saying is that you guys had to give a longer rotation of 8 days on the road verse the 6 you love so much. TWA keeps talking of give and take. Why you can't see that the company is giving you bases and taking longer rotations on the road.

 

[Praetorian]

So with the DAC purchase we have been given a say in iur future work rules which we didn't have under Bombardier. Something they really didn't have to do. Once again, remind me when the Friday emails will start coming out changing things.

As soon as they don't need you anymore. Right now you're useful to them because you can be easily manipulated to whipsaw the FO pilots. Ask yourself why would they suddenly be treating the FX pilots so well when they've never treated the pilots, or office employees this well at FO? You should get on here and thank the pilots at FO every day for maintaining the threat of a union at Flex. If that threat ever goes away they will start to boil the frog at FX and take things away from you, slow but sure. Right now you are simply a means to an end, a way to undermine the union and scare our pilots just before we head back to the bargaining table, so they will use you, or as is now happening with your new bases attempt to maintain the facade of positive change, while running a bait and switch. News flash, the new basing/scheduling system will be cheaper for them. More money in their investors pockets, which is really all any of us mean to them.

I know all of this is lost on you, because you've hitched your wagon to managment. I find it interesting that other FX pilots have been called in on the carpet for posting things your DO didn't like on here and yet, even though everyone knows who you are, you are allowed to continue spewing FUD.

Tacit approval, or active colaboration? I bet your fellow pilots know the answer.

 

[hank1292]

Hey Praetorian! You can take your "You should get on here and thank the pilots at FO every day for maintaining the threat of a union at Flex." and shove it up your A#$. I/we don't owe you a damn thing. I have never got on here and said much but you are just way out of line. You need to back up and rethink you position if it involves such foolish statements.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

As soon as they don't need you anymore. Right now you're useful to them because you can be easily manipulated to whipsaw the FO pilots. Ask yourself why would they suddenly be treating the FX pilots so well when they've never treated the pilots, or office employees this well at FO? You should get on here and thank the pilots at FO every day for maintaining the threat of a union at Flex. If that threat ever goes away they will start to boil the frog at FX and take things away from you, slow but sure. Right now you are simply a means to an end, a way to undermine the union and scare our pilots just before we head back to the bargaining table, so they will use you, or as is now happening with your new bases attempt to maintain the facade of positive change, while running a bait and switch. News flash, the new basing/scheduling system will be cheaper for them. More money in their investors pockets, which is really all any of us mean to them.

I know all of this is lost on you, because you've hitched your wagon to managment. I find it interesting that other FX pilots have been called in on the carpet for posting things your DO didn't like on here and yet, even though everyone knows who you are, you are allowed to continue spewing FUD.

Tacit approval, or active colaboration? I bet your fellow pilots know the answer.

Really. Any specifics, or are these once again vague and baseless accusations?

The reason we got bases started before the DAC purchase.

We had a survey where we were asked to rate some items in order of importance and the company would try to implement them.

One of the items was overtime compensation. Another was crew basing.

The reason we are getting the crew bass is our management team is following through on a promise to act on the survey results. They put a proposal together and it was approved by DAC.

I really don't think this has anything to do with FO pilots. You can keep telling yourselves that it is all about the FO pilots, but I don't think it is. Get over yourself.

Oh, and we didn't get our pay raises based on your contract, it was NJs contract. But once again, they didn't negotiate it so w could get a pay raise. Why should they care about that. They did it for their pilot group.

I am glad we don't have to thank you that our work rules and pay changed base on your contact. It would have been a decline in both.

 

[doh]

Umm, I haven't been called on the carpet for any posts I've made on here. And the DO knows who I am. I told him, but I type the same way I talk so it isn't hard to figure out who I am. I get pm's using my name all the time.

 

[exagony]

TWA ASA guy - how many of the new global pilots coming from flex/options? Were they capts or fo's? What fleets?

 

[Praetorian]

Hey Praetorian! You can take your "You should get on here and thank the pilots at FO every day for maintaining the threat of a union at Flex." and shove it up your A#$. I/we don't owe you a damn thing. I have never got on here and said much but you are just way out of line. You need to back up and rethink you position if it involves such foolish statements.

Lighten up Francis.

 

[Praetorian]

Really. Any specifics, or are these once again vague and baseless accusations?

The reason we got bases started before the DAC purchase.

We had a survey where we were asked to rate some items in order of importance and the company would try to implement them.

One of the items was overtime compensation. Another was crew basing.

The reason we are getting the crew bass is our management team is following through on a promise to act on the survey results. They put a proposal together and it was approved by DAC.

I really don't think this has anything to do with FO pilots. You can keep telling yourselves that it is all about the FO pilots, but I don't think it is. Get over yourself.

Oh, and we didn't get our pay raises based on your contract, it was NJs contract. But once again, they didn't negotiate it so w could get a pay raise. Why should they care about that. They did it for their pilot group.

I am glad we don't have to thank you that our work rules and pay changed base on your contact. It would have been a decline in both.

The Lady of Waterview, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft the new FX crew bases from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that you, the chosen non-union pilots, were to feel the warm sun that is DAC's beneficence shine on your faces.

Is that what you're trying to say?

 

[Praetorian]

Umm, I haven't been called on the carpet for any posts I've made on here. And the DO knows who I am. I told him, but I type the same way I talk so it isn't hard to figure out who I am. I get pm's using my name all the time.

So for you it must be tacit approval. Try posting a few pro-union rants and see how that works out for ya.

 

[el raton]

Lighten up Francis.

Praetorian,
Thank you! Thanks for allowing us to use the threat of a union against KR! Yes the threat of joining your team really helps! We too can achieve a 20% below industry standard compensation, a sh!t schedule, and not to mention the best 401k match,,, Oh wait no 401k. Yes thanks for the threat of dragging all of us down. This must keep KR up at nights alright!

One more thing, I chatted with your vp of something to do with the IBT, he actually said "we at flex should be greatful to you guys for our high salaries". What an idiot.

 

[GooseHZ]

It's amazing the difference between the real life flex guys and the ones here. Most I talk to in person are starting to understand the benefits of a CBA. And they are a lot nicer face to face....

 

[luckydog]

Most crew members at Flex aren't stupid, they understand the benefit of a CBA. Most would welcome a real CBA. But, by a wide majority they want no part of the IBT 1108 CBA.

No matter how much lipstick you put on the current CBA, it's still a pig. Maybe in time, things will go bad at Flex and the pig will start looking pretty good. Until then enjoy the contract you guys fought so hard for while we endure the risk of wholesale terminations and QOL changes (we're OK with it, really).

And, other than a few rabid guys, most of the FLOPs crews I've met on the road are pretty cool. They're flying their trips and collecting a check just like us.

 

[V1 Rotate]

It's amazing the difference between the real life flex guys and the ones here. Most I talk to in person are starting to understand the benefits of a CBA. And they are a lot nicer face to face....

That can definitely be said of the FLOPs guys as well. They're a lot cooler in person than on here. Now that we have that out of the way, I assure you that the majority of Flexjet pilots aren't craving a union CBA, especially one from the 1108.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Yawn.

You know where you’re rotations are headed, right? When I read Uncle’s, I mean DW’s proposal, here’s what stood out:

“Crewmembers should anticipate longer rotations although shorter rotations will still
be possible”

“However, crewmembers in the secondary base system should have an expectation for longer rotations”

“crewmembers living in the Secondary Base system should anticipate longer rotations”

Hmmm. Writing on the wall, people – writing on the wall. Secondary bases now & oh gee, what will they push for 6 – 12 months from now. You like your comfy rotations the way they are? Thing ‘a the past, baby, thing ‘a the past.

What’s really boring is that you’re backing a manager that sits behind a desk all day to post on this site, instead of learning you’re history - including what Uncle did when Options & Travel Air were merged. Don’t like that? Still wanna vilify the 1108? Ok, go look up Confessions of a Union Buster by Levitt. Practically a how-to non-fiction playbook that the law firms and middle wanna-be managers play by. One tact: “allow” a “vote”.

This adorable little vote you get “take” - man they’ve have been playing employee groups with this tact for DECADES!

You know, there’s a very good reason why Options & DAL & UAL & NJ are unionized.

 

[luckydog]

You know, there?s a very good reason why Options & DAL & UAL & NJ are unionized.

Delusions of relevance.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Really? Ok let's add JetBlue, Southwest, FedEx, Continental, USAir, & UPS to the equation. But no, all these thousands of people over the decades are wrong and you're right. Yeah, I buy that.

 

[luckydog]

There is no doubt that some of the companies you list are great places to work and the unions have contributed to their success. There is also a list of airlines that are long forgotten, some had unions. I think you're overreaching.

Honestly, you flatter yourself including FO in the list.

 

[slowtation capt]

TWA ASA guy - how many of the new global pilots coming from flex/options? Were they capts or fo's? What fleets?

Since TWA won't answer you, because it's a straight forward question and there is not a chance that he is able to try to shove it back in your face.
Then I will answer to the knowledge that I have

So far the one's that have been announced to us at Flops -

Flops pilots - 3 management, 1 line captain/ex-management
Flex - 2 pilots, don't know them, don't know their positions.

Soon to be going to school

Flops - 2 management
Flex - not known

 

[doh]

If they had fixed the vacation and let me keep my seniority number, I'd have applied. I think they fixed the seniority number, but the vacation is still broken. Vacation is a big deal because of my wife's career. She has to plan well in advance to avoid conflicts. And losing a week of vacation wasn't helping either.

 

[BlueNose]

The Lady of Waterview, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft the new FX crew bases from the bosom of the water,

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

 

[Praetorian]

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Thank god someone finally got it. ^^

DENNIS: Oh king, eh, very nice. And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers -- by hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society! If there's ever going to be any progress--

 

[doh]

Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.

Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.

Two of my fave quotes from the Grail.

 

[1folinepilot]

It's amazing the difference between the real life flex guys and the ones here. Most I talk to in person are starting to understand the benefits of a CBA. And they are a lot nicer face to face....

I hear one of the Flex Koolaid drinking posters was at the CGF Cleveland Jet Center this morning shooting off his mouth blasting Flops mgt and how DW was brought in to save the company and fix all of the problems at Flops... what he didnt realize is that just about every line guy there was a Flops scheduler or dispatcher and the lady working the desk is friends with Kenn's admin. They were amazed at his delusional rants as they were impressed with all of the previous Flex crews they had met.

Sounds like the Flex guys are going soon going to be moving up a number on their seniority list.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I hear one of the Flex Koolaid drinking posters was at the CGF Cleveland Jet Center this morning shooting off his mouth blasting Flops mgt and how DW was brought in to save the company and fix all of the problems at Flops... what he didnt realize is that just about every line guy there was a Flops scheduler or dispatcher and the lady working the desk is friends with Kenn's admin. They were amazed at his delusional rants as they were impressed with all of the previous Flex crews they had met.

Sounds like the Flex guys are going soon going to be moving up a number on their seniority list.

While I don't condone someone spouting off on something they are not educated about (and I have no idea who this guy was), why would he be fired for promoting DW? I thought people who praised our leadership were promoted according to FLOPs logic???

 

[GooseHZ]

If she is here to lead us all then why haven't the FLOPS pilots heard from our new leader? We can't get on yammer....no more weekly message....nothing. why is that?

It was 442fx....I heard about before they left the fbo. Bashing the other storefronts is not a line pilots job....leave that to management guys.