Looking for Hawaiian A321 Pay Rates

[FlyinGuy]

Point of order....
I hope you guys realize that you are arguing about what YOU would want and what YOU like. Guess what.....I agree with you 100%! You got a great thing going and you are loving life. But!!!....this whole academic discussion deals with the purchase of a very inexpensive long haul international flight department. If and it is a big if, SWA will be looking to purchase HA for its routes and knowledge of establishing more widebody domiciles. That is it, pure and simple. No one is saying that it would not suck. No one is saying that you are going to be laughing and giving high fives down the jetway. I am sure you would have the same sickening feeling in your stomach that most SWA f/o's have had since the announcement of the AT purchase.

 

[Dan Roman]

As I said mergers are always about trying to increase shareholder value and it's done at the expense of the employees. Buying Hawaiian would be the end of your "culture" Simple as that. But your right, it's about as likely as finding the MAS777 in one piece.

 

[Dan Roman]

It has been effectively pointed out here just how many barriers there are to a merger If SWA did ignore some of the realities pointed out here they would likely be going down the USAir/Piedmont/PSA path.

 

[waveflyer]

HA-

We are into high productivity - still am- if I can credit 9.2 on an 11 hour duty day- that beats the hell out crediting 4.5 on an 8 hour duty that I routinely did at hub and spoke carriers-

You are pointing at the wrong people.

Crandall brought about hub and spoke- and somewhere along the way requiring pilots to sit around while a company exchanges passengers wasn't viewed as work. And soft time was considered getting something for nothing.
Soft time gets watered down and then legacy schedules (and all regionals that legacies created) need 20 days on to get to a reasonable credit and pay the bills

That's not on SWA

I have never worked more than 15 days in any month at SWA -
And no one I know has ever been forced to either

 

[HA25]

That's not on SWA

I have never worked more than 15 days in any month at SWA -
And no one I know has ever been forced to either

thats a good thing... you must have good rigs then, which is something I have to admit non of us legacy carriers do at the moment.. I stress "at the moment"

 

[waveflyer]

.76 Tfp/hour on duty

Bet your rig isn't an issue for your international crews since there aren't multi leg days- but what's your rig for the 717 drivers?

 

[HA25]

.76 Tfp/hour on duty

Bet your rig isn't an issue for your international crews since there aren't multi leg days- but what's your rig for the 717 drivers?

Did interisland for one year only and forgot but it wasn't much as I recall. Guys worked way too hard interisland side for their pay. We'll fix that I'm sure.

World wide side needs better pay for down time. Days sitting at the hotel, especially in international 4-5 day trips.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Buying Hawaiian would be the end of your "culture"

GK already put an end to that....

 

[HowardBorden]

The truth is, it's all simply generated by pilots "drooling" over buying HA. I work here, I hear pilots "drooling" over buying HA often.

I can unequivocally assure you I personally (and the vast majority of SWA pilots I have discussed it with) am in no way, shape or form "drooling" over buying Hawaiian, or any other airline for that matter. As a matter of fact I am hoping, begging and praying that SWA has zero acquisition plans in the future. Most of us have witnessed up close and personal the unintended consequences of mergers and acquisitions which is the exact reason most of us want to "just say no."

It is a silly proposition anyway for all of the reasons that have been identified here.

 

[FlyinGuy]

It is a silly proposition anyway for all of the reasons that have been identified here.

And that is why we should all be scared. Management likes to go against all reason!

 

[canyonblue]

Yes, I do want to work 12 days and get paid for 85 hours.. so sue me!

You just described my schedule at Southwest. I got hired here when everyone was going to AA, UA, DL, NWA and the rest. The main reason I wanted to work at Southwest, the schedule. If I have to give up a day of my life, then you have to make it worth it. I don't mind flying, I am actually a pilot, so if I had to fly over 6 hours in one day and in turn would get 18-19 days off a month, I had no problem with it. Working a schedule of 3 on 4 off does wonders for your life, then throw in 4-5 weeks of vacation every year, I agree, sue me!

 

[HA25]

You just described my schedule at Southwest. I got hired here when everyone was going to AA, UA, DL, NWA and the rest. The main reason I wanted to work at Southwest, the schedule. If I have to give up a day of my life, then you have to make it worth it. I don't mind flying, I am actually a pilot, so if I had to fly over 6 hours in one day and in turn would get 18-19 days off a month, I had no problem with it. Working a schedule of 3 on 4 off does wonders for your life, then throw in 4-5 weeks of vacation every year, I agree, sue me!

you're able to credit 7 hours a day without working your arse off? 14 hour duty days, etc? just curious, or are your rigs just that good?

3-4 off isn't hard to get, it's getting enough of them back to back to actually do something .. as for 4-5 weeks vacation, that is where we at HAL have A LOT of work to do.. our vacation, and training months schedule are a HUGE priority at the table in 2015... but recall we've had to rebuild from the ground up, with a lot of give backs over the years, unlike you guys who've seen profits year after year, thus no excuse for anything other than industry leading EVERYTHING.

 

[HowardBorden]

you're able to credit 7 hours a day without working your arse off? 14 hour duty days, etc? just curious, or are your rigs just that good?

3-4 off isn't hard to get, it's getting enough of them back to back to actually do something .. as for 4-5 weeks vacation, that is where we at HAL have A LOT of work to do.. our vacation, and training months schedule are a HUGE priority at the table in 2015... but recall we've had to rebuild from the ground up, with a lot of give backs over the years, unlike you guys who've seen profits year after year, thus no excuse for anything other than industry leading EVERYTHING.

Current lines at my base credit an average of 94.24TFP with an average day off total of 17.24 for the month. The highest value line credits 110.85TFP. Average Daily Guarantee is 6.5TFP, with a Duty Period Minimum of 5.0TFP.

We don't by any stretch lead EVERYTHING, but I believe we are still the highest paid narrow body group in the passenger industry with the highest day off totals. SWA is seriously lacking in retirement and reserve rules. However, those are two of the 3 targeted areas for improvement in section 6. The NC is pushing hard for a B fund and many critical areas lacking in the reserve rules are also being focused on.

 

[HA25]

Current lines at my base credit an average of 94.24TFP with an average day off total of 17.24 for the month. The highest value line credits 110.85TFP. Average Daily Guarantee is 6.5TFP, with a Duty Period Minimum of 5.0TFP.

quite frankly, that's VERY good... I saddens me that UAL/DAL and AA as well as most recently AK were asleep at the wheel when they negotiated their most recent contracts. They have rigs, but they're skeletons of what they had before during contract's 2000.. We at HAL, in our first post-BK contract got rigs very similar.. so once again, we're going to have to fix it ourselves for the Legacy's.

 

[Jim]

We at HAL, in our first post-BK contract got rigs very similar.. so once again, we're going to have to fix it ourselves for the Legacy's.

While I hope we can "fix it" in our next contract, sadly I don't think we will get anything near what you are hoping for. Too many pilots with brothers, sisters, Moms, Dads, Aunties, Uncles, etc. working in various places around the company. Too many pilots being just happy to have a great gig in the islands and too many pilots hearing their relatives bitch and moan about how the pilots are putting their jobs at risk for a strike to ever happen. Hopefully with all the new blood it will change and I'll be proved wrong.

We're a great airline providing a great QOL and paycheck. I love it here and wouldn't want to work any place else but I don't think we will ever match Delta's money or work rules.

 

[waveflyer]

Jim, with that post, now GK REALLY thinks your culture fits SWA

 

[HA25]

While I hope we can "fix it" in our next contract, sadly I don't think we will get anything near what you are hoping for. Too many pilots with brothers, sisters, Moms, Dads, Aunties, Uncles, etc. working in various places around the company. Too many pilots being just happy to have a great gig in the islands and too many pilots hearing their relatives bitch and moan about how the pilots are putting their jobs at risk for a strike to ever happen. Hopefully with all the new blood it will change and I'll be proved wrong.

We're a great airline providing a great QOL and paycheck. I love it here and wouldn't want to work any place else but I don't think we will ever match Delta's money or work rules.

There is much truth to what you say... sadly,in my relatively short time here, I've detected that some of our strengths are also some of our weaknesses. We gotta act more like the 85 year old Legacy Airline ALPA pilot group and less like kids who just got hired at their first airline job flying a Brazillia..

Have faith, I feel strongly about our negotiation team. If we can just be sure the rest of the 600+ are behind them..

 

[dicko]

They won't?

Then you understand what the air tran uproar was about.
AT wanted to be ahead of our 30 year guys bc their relative seniority puts them there

What a ridiculous statement. Anybody that proposed that at AirTran would have been laughed out of the room.

Are you still surprised at the universal lack of respect that SWA merger behavior has created amongst pilots from other airlines ? I bet you are. In fact, I bet you still think that it's not a reality. You actually thought that HAL pilots would rather be bought by SWA rather than Delta.

 

[madjack]

Oh brother

 

[waveflyer]

Do you want me to repost PCL's comments that propose exactly that?
"Worst case scenario is date of hire"- said by many on this board.
So we aren't to believe that an alpa execVP isn't representative of your group?
Why then do we always hear AT pilots cry about losing 30% seniority?
The only way to not is filter you relatively and that means exactly what I said above. Don't run from it now be you want internet emotional support from dan, Jim and the FI crowd.

As for your own spring loaded brand of SWA hateraid
Give it time dicko

You'll get this uniform on and slowly identify with your new reality. And then the comments out of left field will start from the SWA hater crowd. And you'll be...'whoa, I know all too we'll SWA ain't perfect...but that was out there'

Try and remember this is airline 6 for me and I'm hoping it lasts and like it- but I'm an industry guy. I don't pledge allegiance to canyon blue, just call things like I see them.

And yes, if I were Hawaiian, I'd rather SWA bought me than delta. Though delta would be next on the list if it had to go down. (I'd just be ready to see RJs on inter island )