Looking for Hawaiian A321 Pay Rates

[waveflyer]

You sound like you're trying to convince Gary as if he's monitoring this board dan

 

[Dan Roman]

You sound like you're trying to convince Gary as if he's monitoring this board dan

If Gary spends his time reading these boards you guys really are in trouble! ... Nah, but when SWA pilots jump on here and start dissing HA they are going to get a response. Guess we made our point pretty clear though! You asked for a response and got it. As you said, all pretty hypothetical. I would say the chances of SWA buying Hawaiian are about the same of HA buying SWA, I.E. zero.
If all of a sudden SWA thought they should have a relatively small international Airbus hub in the middle of the Pacific your "Gary" would really be losing the plot.

 

[waveflyer]

Who's ever dissed you?

Love Hawaiian

As an ex big 3 pilot I find it strange you'd rather have a big 3 buy you, but sounds like standard alpa SWA hatin

 

[BentOver]

Have absolutely no interest in merging with anyone... My preference if I had a choice would be Delta..atleast they were able to pull off a huge merger with relatively little in fighting...

Just don't see SWA as a merger candidate.... Hard to believe they would go from being a completely domestic carrier to being an international carrier flying to Australia, China and Japan utilizing A330 a/c...

I know SWA just announced their " international":laugh: entry going to far off places like Mexico or the Carribean... But maybe we shouldn't put the cart in front of the horse.. Baby steps gentleman.. Hit up Canada next... Then maybe think about changing the business model, aircraft types, and becoming a go to carrier for Asians and Aussies traveling to Hawaii....

Only positive I could see with any merger is commuters from the mainland having a shorter commute..... Or guys who really don't like living in Hawaii (schools, family or whatever reason) being able to choose a different place to live.

Me personally... I'd be more than happy to live in Hawaii, complete my 2 leg trips and retire where I'm at..

 

[waveflyer]

Have absolutely no interest in merging with anyone... My preference if I had a choice would be Delta..atleast they were able to pull off a huge merger with relatively little in fighting...


Me personally... I'd be more than happy to live in Hawaii, complete my 2 leg trips and retire where I'm at..

Good point

Delta has it all over anyone else in this regard-

And I'm right with you on that last sentence-
But with 20 years to go, it's up to the career gods now

 

[Dan Roman]

Who's ever dissed you?

Love Hawaiian

As an ex big 3 pilot I find it strange you'd rather have a big 3 buy you, but sounds like standard alpa SWA hatin

Anytime someones say's merger, that's dissing!

A merger with anyone is a huge step backwards.

Wave, I really don't get the anti ALPA bias you SWA folks bring up. It's just a union, like SWAPA, APA. USAPA (OK maybe not USAPA!) etc. I've never heard a ALPA sanctioned negative word about SWA. But for some reason SWA pilots, more than anyone, seem to have it in for ALPA? I could care less what the name of my union is, it's the membership that ultimately decides how effective they are. Obviously ALPA has the most resources and has contributed the most to our profession, but I don't have anything against SWAPA or SWA. I think you guys get a little sensitive to any comment that doesn't jive with the SWA kool aid, but, really, I've said time and again SWA is a great airline and your biggest contribution is the demonstrating that taking care of your employees is a good thing.
:beer:

 

[Dan Roman]

Just don't see SWA as a merger candidate.... Hard to believe they would go from being a completely domestic carrier to being an international carrier flying to Australia, China and Japan utilizing A330 a/c...
..

..

I think what people don't realize when they drool over merging with Hawaiian is we don't fit in anyone. Our west coast to Hawaii market is mostly AM departures to Hawaii. As result, our routes simply don't match up to any of the domestic carrier route structures. We are too early to get much feed. We carry passengers primarily who want to go to Hawaii on "Hawaiian Air". So not only would we lose most of what makes us successful if the Hawaiian Air name went away, we simply don't have a route structure that dovetails in with any of the mainland carriers.

 

[fly4surf]

Which a manager could change tomorrow Dan if they wanted.

 

[Squirrel29]

No reason for Delta to buy Hawaiian. Delta can start any of the routes Hawaiian has (besides HNL - HND) with their own metal. That and the interisland market wouldn't be enough. The only airline I could see that would benefit from buying Hawaiian and being a perfect fit would be Jet Blue. But afaik Hawaiian isn't interested in being bought.

 

[Dan Roman]

Which a manager could change tomorrow Dan if they wanted.

Except the airline is built around AM departures from the west coast. Change those times and you completely change the whole business. I.E. early AM departures that can connect to a mid day inter-island flight and be at their hotel by the 3 pm check in time. Also west coast flights that connect to our International flights would be gone. You would also screw up the daily A/C utilization that combines the use of our widebodies flying west coast flights and International flights throughout the Pacific. So in theory a manager could change it, but he would soon be out of a job for blatant incompetence.

 

[waveflyer]

Dan,
That alpa history goes back to the California shuttle battles and UAL acting like a bunch of cockmonkeys including denying jump seats and lecturing pilots. Admittedly before my SWA tenure- but don't pretend it didn't happen-
Our response has been to kill them with kindness- we compete but we have a long standing tradition of treating all offline carriers better than their own companies.
(An aside: Who began the now industry standard of unlimited cabin jumpseating?)

Think you're on an "island" bc I heard it in the early 00's when I was a legacy pilot and that battle was still fresh- and the only reason it's not prevalent today is bc we've been carrying the best contract for a while now

My grudge against alpa is for two reasons- outsourcing and the misrepresentation of domestic pilots within their own ranks- often within individual MECs- they set up a career where we are constantly chasing the carrot- which leads to my second reason- malcontent pilots are active pilots.
Alpa fosters malcontent bc they believe it to make a stronger union.
I served and I've heard it time and again from organizers

And the irony is it may be true - partially - but at a soul killing cost

None of which is the point Dan. It's not an alpa bash- it's that merging alpa carriers hasn't been a good thing so why would you choose ALL legacies over SWA.

It's what sound reason could you give to want a legacy to purchase you?
Asked and answered with delta, and I have granted that. They have far and away done the best job with Nw. But AA/usair? UAL/CO?

Why on earth would those two be preferred?
Doesn't make sense unless you're a SWA hater
Everyone else has international markets and less domestic feed capability. And more complex politics.

I actually don't take a Hawaiian merger off the table. It looks unlikely today- but I view Hawaiian today as likely a candidate as JetBlue and as likely as I viewed air tran when I was hired. I think it would fit nicely with our goal of "world's most loved airline" as long as we don't paint your airplanes and keep Hawaiian as it is as much as possible.

I don't bet on it, but I wouldn't be shocked either.

 

[Dan Roman]

Actually Wave, I just said Delta. UAL or AA would be nightmare. As I said, anyone would be a pretty big step back for us, but SWA, while good at being a LCC domestic carrier, would be a terrible merge for both of us. If you tried to pull on us what you did to AirTran you would create insurmountable problems for you in Hawaii. It also would create a crappy little wannabe legacy airline. A domestic route structure with a relatively small International hub in Hawaii. Hardly a strong business model. So yes, while I having nothing against SWA, it would be a terrible match up that simply would drag us both down.

 

[johnsonrod]

When do the first A321s arrive and how many will be delivered per year?

 

[Squirrel29]

When do the first A321s arrive and how many will be delivered per year?

16 firm and 9 options delivery for the 16 are from 2017 - 2020.

 

[scarlet]

Money is on SWA, taking a look at HA. They want to fly there, they want those Intl routes in those $$$ countries. Will trade those Airbus for 787 (same cockpit as the max).

Sure they have looked at it…..

 

[BentOver]

Money is on SWA, taking a look at HA. They want to fly there, they want those Intl routes in those $$$ countries. Will trade those Airbus for 787 (same cockpit as the max).

Sure they have looked at it?..

I'm Guessing Allegiant is looking to buy Hawaiian.... If not them, maybe Frontier, or Spirit.


I bet spirit or frontier would love those international routes and the $$$ that goes along with them....

New rumor formed,
See how easy this is

 

[HAL]

Money is on SWA, taking a look at HA. They want to fly there, they want those Intl routes in those $$$ countries. Will trade those Airbus for 787 (same cockpit as the max).

Sure they have looked at it?..

Sure. Because similar looking cockpits are the perfect reason to dump a fleet of carefully chosen aircraft, re-train every pilot (including SWA pilots because it isn't a common type with the 737 Max), and change op. specs, maintenance procedures, spare part stocks, passenger service equipment & spares, etc.

HAL

 

[Dan Roman]

Sure. Because similar looking cockpits are the perfect reason to dump a fleet of carefully chosen aircraft, re-train every pilot (including SWA pilots because it isn't a common type with the 737 Max), and change op. specs, maintenance procedures, spare part stocks, passenger service equipment & spares, etc.

HAL

Well said! SWA, more than most, simply doesn't match up with Hawaiians route structure, equipment and business model. Not even close. As I said, if SWA thought trying to acquire Hawaiian would work for them, they really are in a downward spiral. I don't think they are that incompetent.

 

[BentOver]

To make it simple... Hawaiian is a sexy airline....

Hell, most of us live in Hawaii, fly wide body as new hires or upgrade directly into a wide body doing super senior type flying.....


What is not to love about a majority of out professional situations?...

. Hawaiian is not for everyone.. The islands are not for everyone... But I can see why some employee at another company would hope to "merge" with us to have the same type of lifestyle many of us enjoy...

It's kinda of like when you fly a work trip down to the Carribean and see some pilot flying some seaplane or similar and think to yourself " that guy has got the life". Only put that guy in a Hawaiian a/c... For a majority of us, we have the life and are very content to do what we do.

That and SWA has a business model completely different than ours.... I'd put SWA at the back of the list potential merger candidates..

 

[waveflyer]

I do not disagree Bent

Much respect brethren

And you do have some sexy FAs too

Wish our airline would get back to being sexy but we couldn't advertise for the swimsuit issue without people getting up in arms

(You may not expect it, and I don't either- but I wouldn't be shocked-
The nice thing about SWA is we're the only one who wouldn't want to change you and assimilate- (direct from a marketing exec)
So you're point isn't misguided- Hawaii wouldn't stand for Hawaiian goin away- but if it got acquired and still existed in most of it's form....)

Just saying it's been looked and will continue to