Looking for Hawaiian A321 Pay Rates

[waveflyer]

Dan...
C'mon-

I've got 8,000 posts

Think I'm going for that flame. "Pull" ??

Haha- good try

Just remember air tran was doing a lot of "pulling" of their own- might not be the best strategy for Hawaiian pilots to "pull" garbage tricks either when we buy you.
I bet you'll see it announced in 2016 1st qtr

 

[fr8doggie]

Dan...

C'mon-



I've got 8,000 posts



Think I'm going for that flame. "Pull" ??



Haha- good try



Just remember air tran was doing a lot of "pulling" of their own- might not be the best strategy for Hawaiian pilots to "pull" garbage tricks either when we buy you.

I bet you'll see it announced in 2016 1st qtr

Is your name Waverider or Vladimir Putin?

Gonna' give those HAL pilots a "good deal" are you?

Your history wouldn't indicate that.

Regards,
Fr8doggie

 

[fr8doggie]

I do not disagree Bent

Much respect brethren

And you do have some sexy FAs too

Wish our airline would get back to being sexy but we couldn't advertise for the swimsuit issue without people getting up in arms

(You may not expect it, and I don't either- but I wouldn't be shocked-
The nice thing about SWA is we're the only one who wouldn't want to change you and assimilate- (direct from a marketing exec)
So you're point isn't misguided- Hawaii wouldn't stand for Hawaiian goin away- but if it got acquired and still existed in most of it's form....)

Just saying it's been looked and will continue to

Would your scope clause allow HAL to be run separately?

Can't imagine corn dogs letting wide body long haul go to a "lesser group of pilots"

Regards,
Fr8doggie

 

[waveflyer]

Nope
It absolutely wouldn't so im glad I'm not suggesting that

I see no reason we couldn't negotiate to keep the paint and add an "operated by SWA" and the side

 

[fr8doggie]

I see no reason we couldn't negotiate to keep the paint and add an "operated by SWA" and the side

Sounds like the good deal you forced on AirTran pilots.

Can you say Guadalupe Holdings?

I doubt you'll be able to roll the HAL pilots as easily.

Regards,
Fr8doggie

 

[Dan Roman]

Nope
It absolutely wouldn't so im glad I'm not suggesting that

I see no reason we couldn't negotiate to keep the paint and add an "operated by SWA" and the side

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the threat against the AirTran pilots was to operate AirTran separately if they didn't accept the last offer? Btw, their is no way SWA could "pull" what they did on the AirTran folks in Hawaii. You simply would not be allowed to exist in the State if you tried anything like that.

Your dreaming about SWA considered buying Hawaiian dude. I know for a fact Kelley and Dunkerely are in fact friends. I know that when ATA went under they did talk about a code share agreement to fill that void. Straight from Dunkereleys mouth, he said the two airlines simply did not fit. Two completely different business plans that were not compatible .
SWA trying to grow internationally by having a relatively small AirBus hub in HNL would be a bigger mistake than USAir/PSA/Piedmont.

Wave I'm not attacking you or trying to flame you, really. But you dreaming if you think SWA is going to buy Hawaiian or vice versa.

 

[Jim]

Straight from Dunkereleys mouth, he said the two airlines simply did not fit. Two completely different business plans that were not compatible .

Also straight from Dunkereley's mouth when talking about why a code share with Southwest was rejected by Hawaiian (paraphrased). "Southwest wanted a code share more than we did. We don't need Southwest to sell tickets on our planes as we can fill our seats ourselves. Why should we give them money to do something we are already doing?"

I used to want to work for Southwest. When I was looking for a major job, Hawaiian and Southwest were my two top choices. I got hired at Hawaiian before ever getting a SWA interview. I interviewed at SWA in January 2002 when I was furloughed from Hawaiian the first time and was told that any other time I would have been hired but with the thousands of furloughed current 737 pilots available it wasn't my time (words straight from Lindsey Lang). I got recalled to Hawaiian in January 2008 and offered another SWA interview in the spring of 2008 which I turned down only because I was happy at Hawaiian and saw a good future here. Otherwise I would have ecstatically jumped at the SWA interview.

After the SWA/Air Tran merger, I want nothing to do with SWA. I had many SWA pilots on my jump seat (Hawaii is a popular destination for SWA jump seaters) during the integration negotiations telling me that Air Tran pilotd deserved nothing more than a staple and that if SWA bought Hawaiian, that would be all we deserved. The hatred and utter disdain for the Air Tran pilots and their airline was almost universal from the SWA pilots and it was obvious that while they would take our jump seat, they did not think much better of Hawaiian pilots or our airline.

So if Hawaiian loses it's independence, I would much rather it be from merging with or being bought by any of the big three than by SWA. That and I like international wide-body type flying over multiple daily domestic legs.

 

[HowardBorden]

After the SWA/Air Tran merger, I want nothing to do with SWA. I had many SWA pilots on my jump seat (Hawaii is a popular destination for SWA jump seaters) during the integration negotiations telling me that Air Tran pilotd deserved nothing more than a staple and that if SWA bought Hawaiian, that would be all we deserved. The hatred and utter disdain for the Air Tran pilots and their airline was almost universal from the SWA pilots and it was obvious that while they would take our jump seat, they did not think much better of Hawaiian pilots or our airline.

Sorry Jim, I've got to call absolute and total BS on that one. There may be some idiot that would sit on a jumpseat and tell the pilots of the airline generous enough to give them a free ride that they would deserve nothing more than a staple if acquired, but that is not what you are asserting. We all have idiots in our ranks that say ridiculous stuff, but you saying you personally witnessed many spouting this crap is laughable at best. I work with these folks on a daily basis and I have never heard "many" say this so I find it very difficult to believe that "many" would express these views to you in a "hostile" environment.

 

[Jim]

Sorry Jim, I've got to call absolute and total BS on that one. There may be some idiot that would sit on a jumpseat and tell the pilots of the airline generous enough to give them a free ride that they would deserve nothing more than a staple if acquired, but that is not what you are asserting. We all have idiots in our ranks that say ridiculous stuff, but you saying you personally witnessed many spouting this crap is laughable at best. I work with these folks on a daily basis and I have never heard "many" say this so I find it very difficult to believe that "many" would express these views to you in a "hostile" environment.

Ask the guy that was your LAS Asst. Chief pilot at that time about the Hawaiian 767 FO that said if he could, he'd open the main cabin door and throw his ass out into the Pacific for telling me that "Hawaiian is a small airline that has nowhere near the career of a SWA pilot and like Air Tran, should be stapled to the bottom of our list if we ever bought you." He's one example you could track down if you wanted a name.

Ok, many equals 5 or 6 in about an 18 month period. It usually started off with a conversation about your merger and then after hearing about "don't make the money (profits) of SWA" or "small airline" etc. means Air Tran pilots deserved nothing my Captain or I would ask what they think would happen if SWA and Hawaiian were in the same situation. About half would say "I don't know enough about Hawaiian to answer that" but the other 5 or 6 said we'd get treated exactly like they wanted to treat Air Tran. I don't think any of them viewed our cockpit as "hostile", more like "neutral". And the 5 or 6 were initially clueless enough not to notice when it went from neutral to hostile.

I also listened to many SWA pilots while riding the SWA jump seat talk among themselves about about the merger and the venom they spewed was amazing. They would sometime try to drag me into these conversations but I was smart enough to just say "glad it's not my problem, hope it works out for you" which somehow was normally taken as my agreeing with them.

I doubt that you had many conversations, if any, while working daily with your fellow SWA pilots about merging with/acquiring Hawaiian during your Air Tran SLI conversations. So as you claim I'm sure you never heard "many" say this. But I'm equally heard you heard "many" of your fellow SWA pilots say similar things solely about Air Tran. Your fellow SWA pilots said it on this board daily.

Call BS all you want and believe me or not. I don't care and I don't plan on getting into a useless string of replies where we each try and prove the other is a liar. It's not worth the time or effort. I know what I heard and I saw the same crap on here. I went from thinking SWA was an awesome place to work to a place I would avoid unless I had no other major airline option.

Funny, General Lee was right despite all the denials from the SWA pilots on this board. I just jumped from STL to LAS yesterday. I was talking with the crew and the Captain asked "How are things at Hawaiian?" After telling him the latest here, I asked "How are things at SWA?" He said he knows of 4 FOs who have recently left to go to Delta and then the FO chimed in "there are a couple leaving for AA and United too". They blamed "no upgrade in sight", "changing culture", and "bad management". General Lee said this was happening/would happen and all the SWA pilots on here slammed him for daring to think someone would not want to work at SWA let alone leave.

 

[HowardBorden]

I doubt that you had many conversations, if any, while working daily with your fellow SWA pilots about merging with/acquiring Hawaiian during your Air Tran SLI conversations. So as you claim I'm sure you never heard "many" say this. But I'm equally heard you heard "many" of your fellow SWA pilots say similar things solely about Air Tran. Your fellow SWA pilots said it on this board daily.

Call BS all you want and believe me or not. I don't care and I don't plan on getting into a useless string of replies where we each try and prove the other is a liar. It's not worth the time or effort. I know what I heard and I saw the same crap on here. I went from thinking SWA was an awesome place to work to a place I would avoid unless I had no other major airline option.

You would be absolutely wrong when you assume I have not had many specific conversations about merging/acquiring with Hawaiian. A Hawaiian acquisition has been a long running rumor (especially after the AT acquisition) on SWA flight decks.

So, when I listen to you talk about the SWA attitude concerning that scenario I find your assertions difficult to accept considering I have yet to hear someone relate that point of view to me personally when I can only assume I would be a much more sympathetic receptor of such views.

My statement went out of its way to stipulate the "many" assertion was where I had difficulty accepting the premise. Many suggests a majority opinion to me and I still find that premise disingenuous. If I have yet to hear ANY pilot echo the views you represent, the "many" comment still leads me to believe it is exaggerated considering the fact that I have yet to hear anyone express such views.

We all have our "off the deep end" individuals, which is why I was very careful to stipulate my response. I'm not trying to refute you never heard the statements you claim, but your general premise suggests it is a prevalent opinion which I very much refute.