Looking for Hawaiian A321 Pay Rates

[waveflyer]

We'll Jim, bottom line, the end result SLI would've been the same as it is with arbitration, actually list 1 would've produced that- so a couple hundred numbers more slanted in swa's favor and less upgrades.
So you guys would get relative seniority slanted somewhat in swa's favor.

This idea that SWA pilots reaped some huge benefit from air tran is dumb.

Make no mistake- air tran wanted relative placing them in some cases decades ahead of their date of hire on our list.

Their expectations were, and for some still are, out of whack.

World keeps spinning though- but air tran got a great deal out of this in the long run. Sucks for those who had their niche, but it's immature to say we screwed them

If it's venomous to receive nothing from a merger but diluted seniority and not give air tran everything, then I guess that's what it is.

When we buy you, don't expect to wag the dog either and I bet your career would still be pretty good

 

[FlyinGuy]

I guess you HA guys missed the point of SWA (management) buying you. First, you are inexpensive for the operation that you run. Second, they already have a 717 buyer. And last but actually first, they want the international operation. They want an established widebody flight dept with trained crews. You are arguing about product (where you are spot on about the differences), but you are forgetting that they will morph the operation to their liking......just like AT. I am not saying it is a good thing and that you are gonna be thrilled if it does, I am saying that it has an element of intrigue.

Of course, I heard GK recently say that he is not planning to buy/merge with anyone right now, but he would consider it if the right opportunity presented itself in the future.

So fly on and be happy HA because the chances are probably slim but I would not say impossible or never!!

 

[Saluki Dawg]

Let it go Wave. I happen to agree with Dan and Jim on this one. There is about ZERO chance of Southwest acquiring Hawaiian for all of the reasons that have already been stated. Now, do I think that Southwest is going to buy another Airline in the next five years? Absolutely! Do I think that Airline will be Hawaiian? Absolutely not.

 

[waveflyer]

Why not Saluki ?

 

[Saluki Dawg]

Disparate fleet as in (not Boeing). Not a deal breaker by any means, but certainly a consideration. HNL hub operation that is perfect for an Airline named Hawaiian, but much less ideal for an Airline like Southwest even if we were considering adding Asian Destinations. As has already been stated, you would have to continue to run Hawaiian as it's own brand in order to be successful in the islands. I also don't think our management is interested in running multiple brands on a permanent basis. Most of the other reasons have already been talked about by Dan and Jim.

 

[Dan Roman]

Saluki get's an A+ for comprehension and not demonstrating an " it's all about SWA" point of view. :beer:
Another fact to throw in there. Some people on the mainland may not realize just how important inter-island is. What would SWA use to fly inter-island? They can't use a 737 that is ETOPS capable. Economically impossible. So what would they use? You have to have a dedicated fleet for inter-island. Hawaiian can do it, it's their headquarters, but a mainland airline would have a lot of expenses that HA doesn't by trying to set up an operation like that in Hawaii.

 

[Dan Roman]

When we buy you, don't expect to wag the dog either and I bet your career would still be pretty good

Wave, sorry dude, but this an extremely arrogant statement. You usually have a lot of good posts. But statements like this could be an indication of just how poorly SWA might fit into Hawaii. It's indicative of an attitude that is very poorly received over here.

BTW, you didn't answer, didn't SWA threaten to operate AirTran separately?

 

[HA25]

There is no business logic to a WN HAL marriage... AK HAL is the most logical and in my view maybe the only one where there might be a good cultural fit. The only problem would be what you'd call the new airline?

As for the A321 rates... they're essentially meaningless.. we'll have a new contract well before we take delivery of the new jets. We didn't want to waste negotiation capital on those pay rates so all we did is take industry rates and parity them...

In 2010 Hawaiian did the heavy lifting for the other Legacy airlines to bring pay back to something reasonable compared to the huge cuts we all took post-9/11... Lee Moak himself said so much.. our 2010 contract was the bar DAL used to get their rates.. now it's our turn again in 2015 to fix industry rigs it would seem as apparently the guys at DAL, UAL and AA forgot to fix them in their last round... thanks boys.

 

[BentOver]

I agree....SWA just seems like a fit directly out of left field........

AK and JB (maybe VA, although I have no idea what they do as far as routes and schedule?) would be ahead of SWA IMO...

AA has little presence in Asia, so I could see that as a possibility... And always the Delta rumor....

Our gates and routes (oceanic) alone are probably worth a large percentage of our market cap

 

[waveflyer]

Wave, sorry dude, but this an extremely arrogant statement. You usually have a lot of good posts. But statements like this could be an indication of just how poorly SWA might fit into Hawaii. It's indicative of an attitude that is very poorly received over here.

BTW, you didn't answer, didn't SWA threaten to operate AirTran separately?

Threaten?

No threat- just a statement of SWA's options if AT was going to keep acting dysfunctional and delaying the process

Like you said- it's not a threat if a carrier actually wants to be operated separately -

Again dan- if you want to negotiate for yourself and negotiate well, go on.
My post above is only arrogant if you refuse to see the side of the story that you've never heard dan - which is just how weird AT was in the process- their internal politics were off the charts dysfunctional and combined with it a very real conflict of interest from ATALPA and the likes of PCL.
I don't consider negotiating with everything you have as trying to wag the dog- represent yourself well and you'd have a good career.

As for the other examples: SWA is a terrible fit, but somehow JetBlue and Alaska are good??
C'mon

I give SWA the best chance of buying Hawaiian out of the possibilities mentioned. 1 in 4
1 in 5

Worth mentioning