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Dan Roman said:
You are correct that we are all pawns and at the mercy of management decesions. It seems SWA changed from taking care of it's employees and created new jobs in favor of corporate growth when they bought AirTran.

I'm just pointing out the fact that, not you or me per se, but the whole string makes a clear case of how unmatched the 2 airlines are. Two completely different business models that actually don't connect very well. But if you think a relatively small AirBus hub in HNL is a good idea for SWA to "grow", well, than have at it. Not a single credible rebuttle to those facts has been posted on here by any SWA pilot other than..."well anything can happen"
Click to expand...

I actually don't question their agenda. It's just they believe they ARE taking care of employees by going in this direction and the head man I respect for having the strength to do what's unpopular. It's just frustrating that in going that route he's throwing away some very basic ideas of leadership.
 
FlyinGuy said:
That would be fine by me. I am not trying to pick a fight or say that we (the pilots) are trying to piss on your parade. I am simply stating that SWA management has shown their cards. They no longer cherish the internal customer and organic growth. That is why I think HA is on their radar. Of all the airlines, you are a well run and INEXPENSIVE airline. Are we different? Absolutely. That's probably one of the main reasons why they won't pull the trigger. So, to wrap up......

You guys have a great thing going and I am happy for you. I hope SWA never merges, buys, acquires, or whatever again. I think it sucks for all seniority structured employee groups because we always take it in the shorts for the managers. So Dan and all your fellow HA bros....go catch a big one and don't work to hard!!
Click to expand...

Fair enough :beer:
 
waveflyer said:
I actually don't question their agenda. It's just they believe they ARE taking care of employees by going in this direction and the head man I respect for having the strength to do what's unpopular. It's just frustrating that in going that route he's throwing away some very basic ideas of leadership.
Click to expand...

Well the reality is if you guys really want to get into the long haul business, it seems to me it makes a lot more sense to just order a bunch of Dreamliners and start flights out of BWI and OAK.
You probably should question their agenda though, as I said before, mergers are all about corporate growth and profits for a few at the expense of the employees.
 
And FWIW I really don't mean to insult WN guys.. my comment about the ugly girl stems from the reality that at the onset of 9/11 .. and while DAL, and UAL were on their contract 2000, there were few at that time interested in Southwest (and Fedex or UPS for that matter).. but with the battering the Legacy's contracts took in the interim years, the other carriers who were profitable and able to obtain better contracts "look better" now..

I want to see us all do well, there should not be any low paid pilots.. and I for one wish our entire profession would just unite under one union (umbrella) for a stronger lobby in Washington and help win back the losses that have been piling up since 1978 for this great profession.

One by one, our pilot groups will do this, and I for one am optimistic about HAL's place in this come 2015.. And it will be a tough battle!

btw... wish I could catch a wave, but I'm home on the mainland now, and the waves are a bit cold where I'm at... so I'll just enjoy a cold one instead.
 
There's pretty much only one way to view "ugly girl at the bar"
You got the comments you earned my man. Careers are different, sure. And SWA has evolved from what it was, but he'll, delta started out crop dusting. We all change.
IMO- there's been waaayy too much time passed to be all "well you guys sucked 15 years ago!"
C'mon man
Catch that cold wave man- chills at first, but the wetsuit will catch up and it's good for you
 
waveflyer said:
I'm pretty sure they couldn't
Click to expand...


Ironically they could buy us without a second thought.. Do a google search on who owns island air... You may be surprised on how much ya don't know about things out here.

FWIW, I was only kidding about island air... Proving that any company could be conceivably looking at Hawaiian.
 
HowardBorden said:
Ellison could buy United and Delta, BOTH! The bigger question is why would he want to?
Click to expand...

He wouldn't, but he could..

Just highlighting the fact that saying "SWA is looking at Hawaiian" could be said about any airline at any time.... Just because some guys say it on a forum doesn't necessarily make it true.

Ellison could buy Hawaiian just out of spite for making his Lanai project more difficult.. Or he could grow Island Air at a loss and undercut our tickets prices, forcing us to lose money... He's got much deeper pockets if he were to lose his mind for some reason
 
BentOver said:
He wouldn't, but he could..

Just highlighting the fact that saying "SWA is looking at Hawaiian" could be said about any airline at any time.... Just because some guys say it on a forum doesn't necessarily make it true.

Ellison could buy Hawaiian just out of spite for making his Lanai project more difficult.. Or he could grow Island Air at a loss and undercut our tickets prices, forcing us to lose money... He's got much deeper pockets if he were to lose his mind for some reason
Click to expand...

And I gave the SOB a BFR while I was a CFI at SQL back in the early 90's... IF I only knew the bigger picture!
 
waveflyer said:
There's pretty much only one way to view "ugly girl at the bar"
You got the comments you earned my man. Careers are different, sure. And SWA has evolved from what it was, but he'll, delta started out crop dusting. We all change.
IMO- there's been waaayy too much time passed to be all "well you guys sucked 15 years ago!"
C'mon man
Catch that cold wave man- chills at first, but the wetsuit will catch up and it's good for you
Click to expand...

I'm just saying .. the FACT is, not a single person I knew flying at ASA back in the days before 9/11... was talking about going to Southwest. It was DAL, UAL, AA, NWA, and CAL... with the occasional HAL and AS and rarely USAir.. that's it..

Nobody talked about Southwest, Airtran (which was ValueJet for a long time), Fedex or UPS, ... not to mention Spirit, Frontier, America West and other relatively new companies..

I don't know how old you are but if you don't agree, you're not being honest.
 
I stand corrected!
Had no idea:)
Ellison has one of my favorite quotes
"I had every disadvantage required for success"
Yeah- he definitely could
 
No, HA25- that has never been true- im in my 40's and started young- was well into the industry and at a legacy before 9/11. Swa wasn't in fact my own first choice- but there were always pilots who'd read nuts and were big herb fans.
From flight school, there were guys I trained with who only wanted SWA. That's what makes it dumb. We've always had blue angels, and ex braniff concord drivers and hoot Gibson - you don't think an astronaut didn't have options?

I admit it wasn't my first choice bc I was dumb and thought I wanted to fly heavies all over - but I never excluded them
 
waveflyer said:
No, HA25- that has never been true- im in my 40's and started young- was well into the industry and at a legacy before 9/11. Swa wasn't in fact my own first choice- but there were always pilots who'd read nuts and were big herb fans.
From flight school, there were guys I trained with who only wanted SWA. That's what makes it dumb. We've always had blue angels, and ex braniff concord drivers and hoot Gibson - you don't think an astronaut didn't have options?

I admit it wasn't my first choice bc I was dumb and thought I wanted to fly heavies all over - but I never excluded them
Click to expand...

I love an honest debate, and that's why I've always like you on here.. thanks.

That said, I am glad you guys were able to bring up your pay and workrules significantly since the 9/11 downturn (which oddly didn't hurt your business much).. And I'm just hoping we keep moving the bar up as a profession.

None of us got into flying to work 18 days a month and make what 2nd year BA's are getting in the business or engineering world.. It's not my GD job to make less and work harder so people can buy a $200 ticket to where ever the hell they have to go, nor is it my GD place to work harder so my CEO and the share holders can make above market returns.

On that I hope we can all agree, merger or not.
 
Definitely agreed

And then we get into Robert Reich's virtuous economic cycle -
It certainly didn't hurt our business
 
waveflyer said:
Dude,
The Brown in Louisville has it all over Brisbane man

I get you, but bad example:)

Been a while since I sipped some bourbon in the haunted hotel
Click to expand...


Gotta agree with you there Wave. Most world travelers would rather spend the night in Louisville than Brisbane. Well played.


You absolute nincompoop. :eek:
 
Yes. That's you dicko. Nothing if not agreeable.

Here's the secret to this gig. Sipping bourbon in Louisville with great people is better than sipping wine with dicks in Paris. I'd rather be in midland with great people, than a$$holes in FLL. ITS VERY RARE THAT THE PLACE DEFINES THE EXPERIENCE. Even if I say that knowing a bit of alone time on a beach is pretty great.

In this specific example- I hardly think you guys have been to Brisbane. Sydney might have made your case better-
Took 3 seconds of google to find someone who agrees.
Louisville has it all over Brisbane.

"BRISBANE has been singled out as one of the ugliest cities in the world, and an example of “chaotic ugliness”, says one of the world’s leading philosophers."
http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...-alain-de-botton/story-e6frfq80-1226867420594
 
waveflyer said:
Yes. That's you dicko. Nothing if not agreeable.

Here's the secret to this gig. Sipping bourbon in Louisville with great people is better than sipping wine with dicks in Paris. I'd rather be in midland with great people, than a$$holes in FLL. ITS VERY RARE THAT THE PLACE DEFINES THE EXPERIENCE. Even if I say that knowing a bit of alone time on a beach is pretty great.

In this specific example- I hardly think you guys have been to Brisbane. Sydney might have made your case better-
Took 3 seconds of google to find someone who agrees.
Louisville has it all over Brisbane.

"BRISBANE has been singled out as one of the ugliest cities in the world, and an example of ?chaotic ugliness?, says one of the world?s leading philosophers."
http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...-alain-de-botton/story-e6frfq80-1226867420594
Click to expand...

Wave, dude, your making me sound like the General Here....HA flies to Brisbane, it's 767 trip so I can't do it, but, you mentioned surfing once. It's a very short drive to the Gold Coast, I've got friends who do that trip and score big time. It's also a reasonable drive to Noosa Head. I've only surfed Noosa during the Noosa Festival of Surf when it's packed, but their are still plenty of waves. Five point breaks in row that can get as good as it gets.
I do SYD's in the 330, get 21 hours flt pay plus International per diem ($5.00) and despite being gone only 48 hours I get a surf in at Manly.
So I think I would avoid the whole whose layover's are better. That said, PDX is an equally fun layover (snowboarding at Timberline), so I really don't think it's "who has the best layovers" or Intl vs domestic. It's up to the individual and what he does with it. But HA has inter-island home every night, very nice International layovers, or quick, very efficient trips to the west coast. All our flying, even for new hires, would essentially be very senior anywhere else.
 
BTW
Our Auckland trip is a great way to see New Zealand, perfect trip to bring your spouse on as it's a 4 or 5 day trip. (Scored great Ragland there!)
Personally, the last thing I want to do is sit in a bar on a layover, so I guess
I wouldn't fit in too well at SWA! :beer:
 
I wish PDX wasn't so fun for so many. That way I'd get more of them and enjoy getting paid to be at home! This new 2 day thing too is going to be intersting, especially when daylight savings ends.

Auckland is by far nicer than anywhere in AUS, I agree... No wonder the 5 day goes pretty senior with our not so great rig that will only get better in 2015!
 
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waveflyer said:
Yes. That's you dicko. Nothing if not agreeable.

Here's the secret to this gig. Sipping bourbon in Louisville with great people is better than sipping wine with dicks in Paris. I'd rather be in midland with great people, than a$$holes in FLL. ITS VERY RARE THAT THE PLACE DEFINES THE EXPERIENCE. Even if I say that knowing a bit of alone time on a beach is pretty great.

In this specific example- I hardly think you guys have been to Brisbane. Sydney might have made your case better-
Took 3 seconds of google to find someone who agrees.
Louisville has it all over Brisbane.

"BRISBANE has been singled out as one of the ugliest cities in the world, and an example of ?chaotic ugliness?, says one of the world?s leading philosophers."
http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...-alain-de-botton/story-e6frfq80-1226867420594
Click to expand...

Your postings imply that only SWAPA pilots are worthy of your company. You guys are the "cool kids". Everybody else are dicks or a$$holes. Maybe you didn't intend it that way but that's how it reads.

Never been to Brisbane but if a "world's leading philosopher" says it's bad then it must be so. After reading the article I'll be gracious and assume you were trying to be humorous.

The hubris and arrogance emanating from LUV is beyond compare.

We layover at the Brown. It's OK. I prefer the Hong Kong Sheraton.


Regards,
Fr8doggie
 
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How you read that says much more about you fr8 than me.

Can I say it another way, then, for your insecure feelers?

I'd rather have beers in Brisbane with Dan and HA25 than hard alcohol with a couple of our kernals.

Is that better?

No argument if you get to the Gold Coast HA25
 
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waveflyer said:
How you read that says much more about you fr8 than me.

Can I say it another way, then, for your insecure feelers?

I'd rather have beers in Brisbane with Dan and HA25 than hard alcohol with a couple of our kernals.

Is that better?

No argument if you get to the Gold Coast HA25
Click to expand...

It's different anyway.

Regards,
Fr8doggie
 
Wave, I have no problem with your past posts and they do present a level headed conversationalist....

But seriously, based on your profile alone, I doubt you've done any real international flying..... And it comes across as a bit ignorant... Remember, many of us have done the type of layovers SWA does. And in my case I have stayed in many of the same hotels as SWA. ( specifically SDF)

Brisbane might be the nicest city I've ever been to....( never been to Sydney). I literally wished I had another day there on my last layover..... I enjoy Incheon, and our cities in Japan, but being a white boy from the East Coast I prefer The food and people in Brisbane (or Australia)

I agree that each pilot has his or her own personal criteria for a good job, good layover, good lifestyle..... But to say a layover in SDF in some way beats a layover in Brisbane, well it just comes across as... Kinda ridiculous

Agree with Dan...not trying to sound like the General, but for some of us a nice real international trip with a solid day or two to explore/drink/etc is a great way to spend a career...

And for the record... $20 for 2 hrs all you can drink in Japan is pretty darn cool.. Especially with some of the crews I've spent time with there.
 
dan- man my last SYD trip i got skunked... went to manly and went as far north as north narrabeen... i was jonesing pretty bad for something rideable... broke my heart...
 

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