US Airways Contract Projections

[Crzipilot]

past two capts I flew with moved about 25-30 numbers up. Basically going from rsv, to block holder or secondary block to a solid primary. f/o side moved about 30 numbers up, from rsv/secondary block to solid primary block....

They seemed to be pleasantly happy with the results and movement even w/o an increase in hourly rate.....dunno....

 

[Bringupthebird]

Those 487 pilots probably aren't too disappointed with the change,

But in order for the 8% to put more money in THEIR pockets, the 92% had to sacrifice. They have been denied a vote on a contract precisely so that the small sliver of pilots could turn tyranny into a payday because USAPA knew that if they ever gave the line pilot a vote on a contract, the whole DOH quest would disintegrate.

USAPA - By senior F/O's For senior F/O's (but everybody pays).

 

[Bringupthebird]

past two capts I flew with moved about 25-30 numbers up. Basically going from rsv, to block holder or secondary block to a solid primary. f/o side moved about 30 numbers up, from rsv/secondary block to solid primary block....

They seemed to be pleasantly happy with the results and movement even w/o an increase in hourly rate.....dunno....

Did you ask them how much happier they would have been if the improvements in bid position came with a better paycheck too? Then remind them that had they ratified the Kirby with the Nic they would have had both, plus be starting at a higher figure for any future merger.

USAPA wanted you to believe that you would stagnate while the entire west pilot group took your upgrades, and now you know that isn't the truth. You would have gotten 66%of the upgrades and the union would be 100% more effective (not to mention the $millions wasted by USAPA accomplishing nothing but a very expensive delay).

Now that it's clear that USAPA hasn't delivered and can't deliver, are you ready to put adults in charge? Sign the card.

 

[zymotic]

I am not starving or living on the streets, but anyone that says they are "OK" with LOA 93 is plain crazy.

We would all like to make Delta wages and obviously would accept wages like that if it were offered to us.

Doug has been obsessed with a merger three times now. If he fails again he will eventually have to come back to the table here at USAir.

There are those that would tout this latest bid as evidence that this 7 year stalemate between the east and west was the best decision and now the East will reap the benefits of separate ops. As one who works on the East, I disagree.

I could have held PHL 767. That would have resulted in a $12 per hour pay increase. However, it would have resulted in a drastic reduction in quality of life and I'm looking for an increase in QOL provisions via a new contract. Perhaps some may gain that in this latest bid but for many, including myself, I did not. No amount of attrition will gain me days off on reserve (I live in base and will probably bid short call even if able to hold a block) or vacation. Only an new contract will accomplish that and the East pilots bear the brunt of blame in continuing to delay by still clinging to DOH.

 

[Turtle21]

Did you ask them how much happier they would have been if the improvements in bid position came with a better paycheck too? Then remind them that had they ratified the Kirby with the Nic they would have had both, plus be starting at a higher figure for any future merger.

USAPA wanted you to believe that you would stagnate while the entire west pilot group took your upgrades, and now you know that isn't the truth. You would have gotten 66%of the upgrades and the union would be 100% more effective (not to mention the $millions wasted by USAPA accomplishing nothing but a very expensive delay).

Now that it's clear that USAPA hasn't delivered and can't deliver, are you ready to put adults in charge? Sign the card.

It was just one bid. The first bid of at least four this year. The quality of life improvements and pay raises available for pilots is more likely in the 15-20% range when you see that an average of 20-30 pilots on each fleet type at each base, as Capt & FO moved from Res to Line, a significant increase in pay and quality of life. On the next bid Dave Odell will get a pay raise as he moves to a line holder on the AB320. The next bid is scheduled for May and more large improvements will occur in another wave.

These changes should be available for all USAir pilots to bid on.

 

[Turtle21]

There are those that would tout this latest bid as evidence that this 7 year stalemate between the east and west was the best decision and now the East will reap the benefits of separate ops. As one who works on the East, I disagree.

I could have held PHL 767. That would have resulted in a $12 per hour pay increase. However, it would have resulted in a drastic reduction in quality of life and I'm looking for an increase in QOL provisions via a new contract. Perhaps some may gain that in this latest bid but for many, including myself, I did not. No amount of attrition will gain me days off on reserve (I live in base and will probably bid short call even if able to hold a block) or vacation. Only an new contract will accomplish that and the East pilots bear the brunt of blame in continuing to delay by still clinging to DOH.

The assumption that management will pass out a contract offer that can be ratified is questionable, absent some big pressure like the AA merger. Just look at the FAs.. they have no seniority dispute yet management hasn't offered them a contract that can be ratified, even with two chances. Our seniority dispute is a convenient scape goat for management but I think its misleading and diversionary. If management would actually put a reasonable offer on the table it could be ratified, but since they can't even ratify a FA contract then what reason is there to believe they intend to do any different for us, unless of course the AA merger comes into play like it did with Wolf and the United merger.

Pointing fingers at each other over the seniority dispute won't change anything, though it might make us feel good to vent. In my opinion we all need to come to the realization that reality is reality, and the right and wrong arguments don't do anything to bring about improvements for all USAir pilots. Solving the seniority dispute might not bring about a new contract offer from the company that can be ratified (as with the FAs) but at least it would make the attrition from both sides be available to bid on, for both sides, rather than the one sided situation we all now have.

 

[Bringupthebird]

No, res to line holder is not an increase in pay, the rate remains the same, you just work more.

Why won't you admit that the price has been paid by many for the benefit of the very very few (who would have enjoyed it under the Nic as well, only with a substantial increase in the rate of pay)?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Pointing fingers at each other over the seniority dispute won't change anything, though it might make us feel good to vent. In my opinion we all need to come to the realization that reality is reality, and the right and wrong arguments don't do anything to bring about improvements for all USAir pilots.

ARE YOU FOR REAL????

There is no dispute. The seniority list has been arbitrated and accepted. The dispute is whether or not USAPA has the legal right to deny it's members a vote on a contract containing the arbitrated list. Can it legally drag it's feet in order to benefit a sliver of it's membership while costing the rest millions.

RIGHT OR WRONG MATTERS!!! The west is right in that it participated fully in the process and completed it's obligations to the letter. The east's behavior is indefensible. Disregarding right and wrong is the cherry on top for you idiots!

 

[Turtle21]

ARE YOU FOR REAL????

There is no dispute. The seniority list has been arbitrated and accepted. The dispute is whether or not USAPA has the legal right to deny it's members a vote on a contract containing the arbitrated list. Can it legally drag it's feet in order to benefit a sliver of it's membership while costing the rest millions.

RIGHT OR WRONG MATTERS!!! The west is right in that it participated fully in the process and completed it's obligations to the letter. The east's behavior is indefensible. Disregarding right and wrong is the cherry on top for you idiots!

Sure there will always be folks that have strong opinions, but Doug commented on finger pointing from the trenches. He said it isn't helpful.
Doug also said years ago.. eventually people will begin to accept reality and take steps to participate.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Doug also said years ago.. eventually people will begin to accept reality and take steps to participate.

And then got an injunction slapped on you and your "leaders".

No, the best way for those interested in making more money to participate is to start with a card drive in Charlotte, Philly and DCA. I am sure the NMB has had their fill of USAPA's antics and would be happy to facilitate their replacement.

 

[Dornier 335]

Now that it's clear that USAPA hasn't delivered and can't deliver, are you ready to put adults in charge? Sign the card.

What has the previous union delivered? Oh wait! Airline Pilot. It was also about Captain Soandso who went to thisandthis meeting and blablabla.

Question here is, blame the players or the game?

 

[Flybywire44]

It was just one bid. The first bid of at least four this year. The quality of life improvements and pay raises available for pilots is more likely in the 15-20% range when you see that an average of 20-30 pilots on each fleet type at each base, as Capt & FO moved from Res to Line, a significant increase in pay and quality of life. On the next bid Dave Odell will get a pay raise as he moves to a line holder on the AB320. The next bid is scheduled for May and more large improvements will occur in another wave.

These changes should be available for all USAir pilots to bid on.

You should not be using line pilot names on this forum.

 

[Bringupthebird]

What has the previous union delivered? Oh wait! Airline Pilot. It was also about Captain Soandso who went to thisandthis meeting and blablabla.

Perhaps you were in the bathroom and hadn't heard, but they gave you the highest payrates you'll ever have seen.

They got you the pension you chose to give away inorder to retain your meager paychecks.

They gave you relevance at the bargaining table.

They gave you a top tier VP position when you were only a warmed over regional airline.

They gave you protection from being held personally and criminally liable in accidents (which you had plenty).

They gave you real aeromedical help, not some ad in the back of Flying Magazine

They gave you an enviable record at the grievance table (compared to USAPA which has been abysmal)

They spent a tiny fraction in legal fees compared to USAPA on a percentage basis and almost none of it was spent persecuting its own members

They were able to represent the pilots without resorting to Section 29 on 100s of pilots.

They got you a seniority integration methodology which went to arbitration and whose only flaw was that it depended on both sides behaving like adults. It had no way to predict the wacko masochistic behavior of the east.

In short they got you all the things you will never recoup. And a magazine.

For all its flaws ( and there were many, mostly due to Prater and to a lesser extent Worthe) it provided VALUE. USAPA provides hollow "victories" that the east pilots will eventually be held to account for.

 

[zymotic]

You should not be using line pilot names on this forum.

Probably not a big deal since his name is already "out there". He was the junior most pilot on the West list at the time of the merger. His name is being so much used to speak of the individual but of the significance of what spot he represents.

 

[zymotic]

The assumption that management will pass out a contract offer that can be ratified is questionable, absent some big pressure like the AA merger. Just look at the FAs.. they have no seniority dispute yet management hasn't offered them a contract that can be ratified, even with two chances. Our seniority dispute is a convenient scape goat for management but I think its misleading and diversionary. If management would actually put a reasonable offer on the table it could be ratified, but since they can't even ratify a FA contract then what reason is there to believe they intend to do any different for us, unless of course the AA merger comes into play like it did with Wolf and the United merger.

Pointing fingers at each other over the seniority dispute won't change anything, though it might make us feel good to vent. In my opinion we all need to come to the realization that reality is reality, and the right and wrong arguments don't do anything to bring about improvements for all USAir pilots. Solving the seniority dispute might not bring about a new contract offer from the company that can be ratified (as with the FAs) but at least it would make the attrition from both sides be available to bid on, for both sides, rather than the one sided situation we all now have.

The West pilots were able to negotiate a contract with Doug Parker and many sections are better than ours including vacation, pay rates, daily min credit, long rig, days off on reserve, reserve rest to name some.