US Airways Contract Projections

[LaGarbage Man]

I don't have cable or satellite so no MNF for me. Perhaps I'll get it when I get paid what other airline pilots make.

Either that or your boys will be playing in the NFL by then and you can just go to the game with them. Might take about the same amount of time.

 

[Turtle21]

Perhaps you are OK with LOA 93. I'm still an airbus F/O on reserve making about 30K less than my counterpart at Delta with 7 days of vacation. I couldn't even make as much as a Delta 320 F/O if I was on the 330 and no amount of attrition will even get me to two weeks of vacation for years to come.

I am not starving or living on the streets, but anyone that says they are "OK" with LOA 93 is plain crazy.

We would all like to make Delta wages and obviously would accept wages like that if it were offered to us.

Doug has been obsessed with a merger three times now. If he fails again he will eventually have to come back to the table here at USAir.

 

[becket]

. If he fails again he will eventually have to come back to the table here at USAir.

If Dug fails again, you're going to be on LOA 93 for several more years. The East pilots delivered endless delay to Parker on a silver platter. USAPA isn't the only one who can twist and contort the law in ways never intended or envisioned for their own selfish aspirations.

Parker will NEVER be forced to the table with USAPA around.

 

[Bringupthebird]

West pilots, Zero.

East Pilots:

141 new captain awards on A330, 767, 737, 320
181 New FO bids
98 New FOs on A330, 767
Untold numbers of people getting off reserve across all types

So how many are transfers off the 737?

Even without considering that, you're still looking at roughly 11% of the east pilot group and about 8% of the combined pilot group benefiting while 89-92% suffers.

How can you convince 92% of the pilots that they should subsidize your land grab while they languish? Better yet, how does your union which extorts money from the same group that is suffering, defends the premise that the clique which runs it should be the sole beneficiaries of the merger?

 

[Bringupthebird]

The West or East May bid?

If I were a West pilot I would be telling my West BPR reps to start talking with the other reps to change the CB&L DOH to LOS, yesterday.

A card drive to oust USAPA would be far more effective. Look at the tattered remnants of the Cleary Cabal and how they whine and moan from the outside looking in. Imagine if the entire USAPA faithful were in that glorious position of having their reign of destruction truncated. If the majority of the pilots who want to move forward (and from the sound of those who wanted the MOU to go to a vote, I'd say that was substantial) were to take control form the inept angry F/O's we could get unparked from the NMB and put a contract to a vote and slowly regain some of the relevance we deserve.

Or we can count to 100 after which either the tantrum stops, or we continue to count to 200.

Call for cards. DUMP USAPA

 

[Bringupthebird]

Sometimes the bad guys win.

This would not be one of those times!

If DOH is put into a contract, the entire list will have to be DOH, and the support for that quickly evaporates. Plus the courts would have to side with the elimination of Binding Arbitration and there is no LUP anywhere for that.

If Parker determines that he could be on the hook for damages (up to and including un-bumping and flushing) he will make sure USAPA pays for it.

No, I think you'll find USAPA trying to play the waiting game and when they feel they've gotten all the upgrades they want, they'll come out and say NIC is it.

If you want to stop that, join the drive to dump USAPA. There are far more good guys out there than you think.

 

[Turtle21]

If Dug fails again, you're going to be on LOA 93 for several more years. The East pilots delivered endless delay to Parker on a silver platter. USAPA isn't the only one who can twist and contort the law in ways never intended or envisioned for their own selfish aspirations.

Parker will NEVER be forced to the table with USAPA around.

I happen to agree that Doug wouldn't feel too forced to come to the negotiating table if he screws up the AA merger. Just look at how he deals with the FAs. The FAs have voted down two TAs and have voted over 90% to strike yet Doug yawns, and all we hear is that he can't pay more to any of the employees if we dont' become as big as Delta. Sans a merger with AA the only pay raises and quality of life will come via attrition. It should not be limited to one side.

 

[Turtle21]

So how many are transfers off the 737?

Even without considering that, you're still looking at roughly 11% of the east pilot group and about 8% of the combined pilot group benefiting while 89-92% suffers.

How can you convince 92% of the pilots that they should subsidize your land grab while they languish? Better yet, how does your union which extorts money from the same group that is suffering, defends the premise that the clique which runs it should be the sole beneficiaries of the merger?

How many were transfers to the A320 from the 737? First lets admit we are talking about how sour the grapes are, rather than whether or not their are grapes... There were 54 new bids on the A330 and B767, so its probably safe to guess at least as many were also upgrades to backfill the pilots that upgraded to them but the bid award is out for anyone that wants to narrow down exactly how sour it is. One could compare it to our last bid 12-04 and determine how many pilots upgraded, how many are no longer on reserve, etc, etc..

There were 27 retirements on this bid and increase of 5 A330s and 5? E190s.... resulting in 367 new bid awards and 120+ bids still open. There will be more retirements to account for in the May bid (and every new bid for the next ten years) and these changes should benefit all USAir pilots.

 

[Bringupthebird]

There were 27 retirements on this bid

So you still didn't answer the question. What percentage of the total pilot group saw a verifiable substantial increase in pay as a direct result of this bid? And how many yielded a pay rate in excess of $142/hr?

There are 92% of the pilots with a vested interest in your answer.

Oh, and while you're at it explain how installing USAPA brought you to this El Dorado of yours any better than you could have under ALPA? Had USAPA been the back seat abortion it should have been, the west would be fighting ALPA in court on ALPA's nickle. You had your little chubby advocate Prater willing to do whatever it took to placate you. You could have perpetuated your delay just as effectively.

If you're willing to try honesty on for size, you'll admit that USAPA has done nothing for the millions in dues it has collected, except get an injunction slapped on the pilots which greases the rope others will have to climb in future contract negotiations.

So when someone comes to you looking for your signature on card to replace USAPA, how will you defend the Charlotte-ans who stole from their own pilots?

 

[Turtle21]

So you still didn't answer the question. What percentage of the total pilot group saw a verifiable substantial increase in pay as a direct result of this bid? ...

Existing USAir pilots were awarded 367 new bids and 120 new pilots will be hired by March. Those 487 pilots probably aren't too disappointed with the change, neither are the hundreds of new line holders, not to mention the hundreds of pilots that expect to have improvements in the next bid. These changes should be available to all USAir pilots.

 

[Crzipilot]

past two capts I flew with moved about 25-30 numbers up. Basically going from rsv, to block holder or secondary block to a solid primary. f/o side moved about 30 numbers up, from rsv/secondary block to solid primary block....

They seemed to be pleasantly happy with the results and movement even w/o an increase in hourly rate.....dunno....

 

[Bringupthebird]

Those 487 pilots probably aren't too disappointed with the change,

But in order for the 8% to put more money in THEIR pockets, the 92% had to sacrifice. They have been denied a vote on a contract precisely so that the small sliver of pilots could turn tyranny into a payday because USAPA knew that if they ever gave the line pilot a vote on a contract, the whole DOH quest would disintegrate.

USAPA - By senior F/O's For senior F/O's (but everybody pays).

 

[Bringupthebird]

past two capts I flew with moved about 25-30 numbers up. Basically going from rsv, to block holder or secondary block to a solid primary. f/o side moved about 30 numbers up, from rsv/secondary block to solid primary block....

They seemed to be pleasantly happy with the results and movement even w/o an increase in hourly rate.....dunno....

Did you ask them how much happier they would have been if the improvements in bid position came with a better paycheck too? Then remind them that had they ratified the Kirby with the Nic they would have had both, plus be starting at a higher figure for any future merger.

USAPA wanted you to believe that you would stagnate while the entire west pilot group took your upgrades, and now you know that isn't the truth. You would have gotten 66%of the upgrades and the union would be 100% more effective (not to mention the $millions wasted by USAPA accomplishing nothing but a very expensive delay).

Now that it's clear that USAPA hasn't delivered and can't deliver, are you ready to put adults in charge? Sign the card.

 

[zymotic]

I am not starving or living on the streets, but anyone that says they are "OK" with LOA 93 is plain crazy.

We would all like to make Delta wages and obviously would accept wages like that if it were offered to us.

Doug has been obsessed with a merger three times now. If he fails again he will eventually have to come back to the table here at USAir.

There are those that would tout this latest bid as evidence that this 7 year stalemate between the east and west was the best decision and now the East will reap the benefits of separate ops. As one who works on the East, I disagree.

I could have held PHL 767. That would have resulted in a $12 per hour pay increase. However, it would have resulted in a drastic reduction in quality of life and I'm looking for an increase in QOL provisions via a new contract. Perhaps some may gain that in this latest bid but for many, including myself, I did not. No amount of attrition will gain me days off on reserve (I live in base and will probably bid short call even if able to hold a block) or vacation. Only an new contract will accomplish that and the East pilots bear the brunt of blame in continuing to delay by still clinging to DOH.

 

[Turtle21]

Did you ask them how much happier they would have been if the improvements in bid position came with a better paycheck too? Then remind them that had they ratified the Kirby with the Nic they would have had both, plus be starting at a higher figure for any future merger.

USAPA wanted you to believe that you would stagnate while the entire west pilot group took your upgrades, and now you know that isn't the truth. You would have gotten 66%of the upgrades and the union would be 100% more effective (not to mention the $millions wasted by USAPA accomplishing nothing but a very expensive delay).

Now that it's clear that USAPA hasn't delivered and can't deliver, are you ready to put adults in charge? Sign the card.

It was just one bid. The first bid of at least four this year. The quality of life improvements and pay raises available for pilots is more likely in the 15-20% range when you see that an average of 20-30 pilots on each fleet type at each base, as Capt & FO moved from Res to Line, a significant increase in pay and quality of life. On the next bid Dave Odell will get a pay raise as he moves to a line holder on the AB320. The next bid is scheduled for May and more large improvements will occur in another wave.

These changes should be available for all USAir pilots to bid on.

 

[Turtle21]

There are those that would tout this latest bid as evidence that this 7 year stalemate between the east and west was the best decision and now the East will reap the benefits of separate ops. As one who works on the East, I disagree.

I could have held PHL 767. That would have resulted in a $12 per hour pay increase. However, it would have resulted in a drastic reduction in quality of life and I'm looking for an increase in QOL provisions via a new contract. Perhaps some may gain that in this latest bid but for many, including myself, I did not. No amount of attrition will gain me days off on reserve (I live in base and will probably bid short call even if able to hold a block) or vacation. Only an new contract will accomplish that and the East pilots bear the brunt of blame in continuing to delay by still clinging to DOH.

The assumption that management will pass out a contract offer that can be ratified is questionable, absent some big pressure like the AA merger. Just look at the FAs.. they have no seniority dispute yet management hasn't offered them a contract that can be ratified, even with two chances. Our seniority dispute is a convenient scape goat for management but I think its misleading and diversionary. If management would actually put a reasonable offer on the table it could be ratified, but since they can't even ratify a FA contract then what reason is there to believe they intend to do any different for us, unless of course the AA merger comes into play like it did with Wolf and the United merger.

Pointing fingers at each other over the seniority dispute won't change anything, though it might make us feel good to vent. In my opinion we all need to come to the realization that reality is reality, and the right and wrong arguments don't do anything to bring about improvements for all USAir pilots. Solving the seniority dispute might not bring about a new contract offer from the company that can be ratified (as with the FAs) but at least it would make the attrition from both sides be available to bid on, for both sides, rather than the one sided situation we all now have.

 

[Bringupthebird]

No, res to line holder is not an increase in pay, the rate remains the same, you just work more.

Why won't you admit that the price has been paid by many for the benefit of the very very few (who would have enjoyed it under the Nic as well, only with a substantial increase in the rate of pay)?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Pointing fingers at each other over the seniority dispute won't change anything, though it might make us feel good to vent. In my opinion we all need to come to the realization that reality is reality, and the right and wrong arguments don't do anything to bring about improvements for all USAir pilots.

ARE YOU FOR REAL????

There is no dispute. The seniority list has been arbitrated and accepted. The dispute is whether or not USAPA has the legal right to deny it's members a vote on a contract containing the arbitrated list. Can it legally drag it's feet in order to benefit a sliver of it's membership while costing the rest millions.

RIGHT OR WRONG MATTERS!!! The west is right in that it participated fully in the process and completed it's obligations to the letter. The east's behavior is indefensible. Disregarding right and wrong is the cherry on top for you idiots!

 

[Turtle21]

ARE YOU FOR REAL????

There is no dispute. The seniority list has been arbitrated and accepted. The dispute is whether or not USAPA has the legal right to deny it's members a vote on a contract containing the arbitrated list. Can it legally drag it's feet in order to benefit a sliver of it's membership while costing the rest millions.

RIGHT OR WRONG MATTERS!!! The west is right in that it participated fully in the process and completed it's obligations to the letter. The east's behavior is indefensible. Disregarding right and wrong is the cherry on top for you idiots!

Sure there will always be folks that have strong opinions, but Doug commented on finger pointing from the trenches. He said it isn't helpful.
Doug also said years ago.. eventually people will begin to accept reality and take steps to participate.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Doug also said years ago.. eventually people will begin to accept reality and take steps to participate.

And then got an injunction slapped on you and your "leaders".

No, the best way for those interested in making more money to participate is to start with a card drive in Charlotte, Philly and DCA. I am sure the NMB has had their fill of USAPA's antics and would be happy to facilitate their replacement.