It's Official...The 717's are going to Delta

[texman]

All I can say is every AT folk that I have meet has been awesome. Hopefully there is a big azz elephant in the room that will allow for some type of certainty overall.

 

[humveedriver]

The SWA name is. We didn't buy seats, we bought a airline. Fair and square is the price that your ceo took. Don't forget. BF and the shareholders sold you guys.

M/B was the saving grace. It saved a lot of job loss and headache. Expecially in a crappy economy. I just hope the AT folks see the value in this. I know I do. I have a family too.

What we are saying is any aircraft that has SWA on it, a SWA pilot should be flying it.

I just haven't seen (AA/TWA, US/AWA, DAL/NWA, UAL/CAL or any regional airline integration) where the smaller airline loses all their captain seats. I know you are junior and didn't sign up for this mess. This 717 thing could have been handled better. I think SWA used the 717 for negotiation leverage with Boeing and the large Max order. They couln't just tip their cards in May/June and tell us the 717s were going to be history very quickly. They had to keep it vague. So they pissed off some pilots in return for getting a good deal on airplanes. That's what I call just business in the airline industry. Not the emotional crap.

 

[humveedriver]

All I can say is every AT folk that I have meet has been awesome. Hopefully there is a big azz elephant in the room that will allow for some type of certainty overall.

Thanks! My commute on SWA has been a really positive experience since we shut down DFW. Just got To get through these choppy waters.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lear, a plan is just that, a plan. An old saying, "Plans never make it past first contact with the enemy".

 

[redflyer65]

To answer your question, a 12th year FO at SWA currently makes $132.84/trip x 90 trips min reserve = 11,956/mo or about $144k per year. That's the minimum. An FO with 10 years or more of seniority is very senior, and can easily work his schedule to fly 130 or more trips/month with little effort and still no more (or not much more) than 15 days worked per month (what a reserve works for his 90 trips). Pushing $200k is very common for a senior FO.

I realize that this doesn't change a seat displacement, but I hope it helps by addressing your question. I'm like you: I'd rather be a bottom-feeding captain than a uber-senior FO, although the reality is that there's not a whole lot of difference at Southwest between the pay of a reserve captain and a crafty, senior FO.

Bubba

Bubba got to it before I did. Nobody over here works minimum. Could it happen, sure but there is usually plenty to pick up from other pilots. I've been averaging 120 TFP/month lately and it's still higher than 11,900 quoted above and I haven't been here anywhere close to 12 years.

AAI 12yr CA at 70hrs = 11,550. There is a big difference to made over here once you transistion.

 

[redflyer65]

Thanks! My commute on SWA has been a really positive experience since we shut down DFW. Just got To get through these choppy waters.

Well stated Sir. I'm looking forward to everyone being on the same side. I'd prefer sooner than later.

 

[humveedriver]

Lear, a plan is just that, a plan. An old saying, "Plans never make it past first contact with the enemy".

Correct! Followed by the S-3 saying "Sir, we need to adjust fire on this plan".

 

[texman]

I just haven't seen (AA/TWA, US/AWA, DAL/NWA, UAL/CAL or any regional airline integration) where the smaller airline loses all their captain seats. I know you are junior and didn't sign up for this mess. This 717 thing could have been handled better. I think SWA used the 717 for negotiation leverage with Boeing and the large Max order. They couln't just tip their cards in May/June and tell us the 717s were going to be history very quickly. They had to keep it vague. So they pissed off some pilots in return for getting a good deal on airplanes. That's what I call just business in the airline industry. Not the emotional crap.

Ok, I am a sympathic person and understand.

Lear 70, thanks for the reply earlier.

 

[Lear70]

Pending any period of separate operation prior to operational merger and integration of collective bargaining agreements and pilot seniority lists, which shall be no longer than twenty-four (24) months, unless mutually agreed upon by the Company and the Association, the successor shall keep separate the flight operations of the carriers and will not transfer or interchange crews, equipment and/or routes between the carriers unless otherwise negotiated and agreed to by the Association, and shall ensure that all Company aircraft on hand or on order at the time of the transaction are operated only by pilots on the Southwest Airlines’ Master Pilot Seniority List.

There we go, thanks. Here's the fun part:

1. "Prior to operational merger": Your agreement doesn't call for "Complete" Operational Merger to trigger this section, just "operational merger". If everything in Flt Ops has been merged, including dispatchers, scheduling, operations, and all that remains are a few airplanes that are going away at 3 per month to Delta and 20-30 737's that haven't been taken over the partition but are scheduled to during the year, all of which make up less than 2% of your total fleet size, you're going to have a hard time arguing that the airlines haven't been operationally merged.

2. "Integration of Collective Bargaining Agreements": happens on 1/1/15.

3. "Integration of pilot seniority lists" will happen the moment we have single carrier status with the NMB and the 1/1/15 snap-up to the Southwest CBA happens. Legally-speaking, we are already on the Southwest master seniority list and once we are also on your CBA and represented by SWAPA, there IS no more AirTran seniority list; we're all SWAPA.

It takes those 3 things to trigger the "must keep separate" clause. 1/1/15 and NMB single carrier representation takes care of all but #1 which is a tough sale when there's nothing left but a few airplanes on our side of the partition, half of which are going to another airline anyway.

Again, not saying you're wrong, just be prepared that the language in the SIA has been crafted VERY carefully to make sure that if integration stretches past 1/1/15, and SWAPA doesn't give them an extension on COI, there's enough teeth in the SIA to get around your 1.c.1 above and they'd only have to draw it out for 8-9 months in order for the point to be moot anyway.

Wish I didn't have to be suspicious, thought we were done with all of that when SWA bought us, but recent experience has taught me that things may not always be what they seem, even at Southwest.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lear, I'm a little lost, whats the ramifications here again? Sorry, I'm being stupid today.