It's Official...The 717's are going to Delta

[redflyer65]

Thanks! My commute on SWA has been a really positive experience since we shut down DFW. Just got To get through these choppy waters.

Well stated Sir. I'm looking forward to everyone being on the same side. I'd prefer sooner than later.

 

[humveedriver]

Lear, a plan is just that, a plan. An old saying, "Plans never make it past first contact with the enemy".

Correct! Followed by the S-3 saying "Sir, we need to adjust fire on this plan".

 

[texman]

I just haven't seen (AA/TWA, US/AWA, DAL/NWA, UAL/CAL or any regional airline integration) where the smaller airline loses all their captain seats. I know you are junior and didn't sign up for this mess. This 717 thing could have been handled better. I think SWA used the 717 for negotiation leverage with Boeing and the large Max order. They couln't just tip their cards in May/June and tell us the 717s were going to be history very quickly. They had to keep it vague. So they pissed off some pilots in return for getting a good deal on airplanes. That's what I call just business in the airline industry. Not the emotional crap.

Ok, I am a sympathic person and understand.

Lear 70, thanks for the reply earlier.

 

[Lear70]

Pending any period of separate operation prior to operational merger and integration of collective bargaining agreements and pilot seniority lists, which shall be no longer than twenty-four (24) months, unless mutually agreed upon by the Company and the Association, the successor shall keep separate the flight operations of the carriers and will not transfer or interchange crews, equipment and/or routes between the carriers unless otherwise negotiated and agreed to by the Association, and shall ensure that all Company aircraft on hand or on order at the time of the transaction are operated only by pilots on the Southwest Airlines’ Master Pilot Seniority List.

There we go, thanks. Here's the fun part:

1. "Prior to operational merger": Your agreement doesn't call for "Complete" Operational Merger to trigger this section, just "operational merger". If everything in Flt Ops has been merged, including dispatchers, scheduling, operations, and all that remains are a few airplanes that are going away at 3 per month to Delta and 20-30 737's that haven't been taken over the partition but are scheduled to during the year, all of which make up less than 2% of your total fleet size, you're going to have a hard time arguing that the airlines haven't been operationally merged.

2. "Integration of Collective Bargaining Agreements": happens on 1/1/15.

3. "Integration of pilot seniority lists" will happen the moment we have single carrier status with the NMB and the 1/1/15 snap-up to the Southwest CBA happens. Legally-speaking, we are already on the Southwest master seniority list and once we are also on your CBA and represented by SWAPA, there IS no more AirTran seniority list; we're all SWAPA.

It takes those 3 things to trigger the "must keep separate" clause. 1/1/15 and NMB single carrier representation takes care of all but #1 which is a tough sale when there's nothing left but a few airplanes on our side of the partition, half of which are going to another airline anyway.

Again, not saying you're wrong, just be prepared that the language in the SIA has been crafted VERY carefully to make sure that if integration stretches past 1/1/15, and SWAPA doesn't give them an extension on COI, there's enough teeth in the SIA to get around your 1.c.1 above and they'd only have to draw it out for 8-9 months in order for the point to be moot anyway.

Wish I didn't have to be suspicious, thought we were done with all of that when SWA bought us, but recent experience has taught me that things may not always be what they seem, even at Southwest.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lear, I'm a little lost, whats the ramifications here again? Sorry, I'm being stupid today.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, I'm a little lost, whats the ramifications here again? Sorry, I'm being stupid today.

Nah, it's probably just lost in the 3 cross-conversations going on at the same time.

Bubba made a comment about the company having to come to SWAPA for relief when the timeline obviously isn't going to allow for Complete Operational Integration by 1/1/15 and the truth is, they probably will, but I don't think SWA has as good of a hand in that scenario as Bubba does.

Southwest has crafted the SIA very, very well, from the perspective of "legal advantage".

 

[WayBack]

So after Delta pilot vote to give up more scope, which regional is getting the 717's?

 

[scoreboardII]

Thanks Lear, thats clear. Yes, SWA has been known to use lawyers in their history.

 

[avi8tor007]

Hey guys. 12 yr AAI guy here. Last year I was at 198k not including 401k. I am at 163/hr right now. By the end of our AAI contract (14'), we would be at 186/hr. With the loss of flying on our side, losing those pay increases (extra 25-30k), cpt. seats., and the 1/1/15 pay. that hurts! It is what it is, not a damn thing anyone of us can do about it. Just wanted to throw some factual numbers out there.
I am sympathetic to the swa F/O's as well! Were are all in this together now, hopefully growth in 14' out of hobby???????

 

[GlobeIII]

our AAI contract (14'),

Was that the contract you guys got before or after SWA announced they were going to acquire you?

 

[redflyer65]

New contract was after SW made the announcement. Almost to year four on this side, should be close to 160k this year, without 401k.

 

[OakRBust]

aviator007..... That's 1214.7 hours. How the hell did you do that?

 

[Lear70]

Last year there was plenty of premium pay to go around if you wanted it. Not to mention our reserves were crediting upwards of 110-120 hours a month because of Twomey-Kasher before the new contract went into effect December before last.

Depending on where he's sitting and how hard he's willing to work, 100 hours of credit a month wasn't hard to do last year. Heck, my buddy on the 717 still does almost 100 hours a month even on the crappy lines we have now. Granted, he flies 20 days a month, but still, it can be done if you're willing to only have 9-10 days off a month...

 

[PCL_128]

aviator007..... That's 1214.7 hours. How the hell did you do that?

Really not that hard. I'm crediting over 100 this month.

 

[avi8tor007]

Actually just went and looked and it was pretty close. There was a lot of soft time over here for us fags. plus per diem, vacation, sick, etc... But was still pulling 15-16 off a month.