It's Official...The 717's are going to Delta

[Hamfighter]

We'd better accept that dog of a TA fast so we don't loose the 717s!!!

 

[humveedriver]

let's see exactly what this means, what exactly will happen and when, and what can be done about it before we go off the deep end.

+1. ^^^

 

[BoilerUP]

The tentative agreement also provides Delta with additional flexibility to acquire up to 70 larger two-class, 76-seat regional jets as the Boeing 717 aircraft are delivered to Delta. Delta currently operates 255 larger two-class regional jets; the fleet will be increased to 325 aircraft.

Maybe its my Kentucky public school education, but something isn't adding up here.

Delta's current scope allows 153 76 seaters; add "up to" 70 more and you get to the TA limit of 223. There are 88 717s, and coincidentally enough when you consider 1.25 narrowbodies for every 1 76 seater you get 70 new 76 seat jets.

Okay great! But what about those DC9 retirements they mention in the press release?

The way I read it, management will add 88 narrowbodies worth of 76 seat growth, but the net gain in mainline aircraft will be less than 88 planes...?

Also, the TA would restrict 50-70 seat small jets to a grand total of 125...right? So how do they get to the 325 number in the press release?

 

[texman]

I agree bubba.

 

[C601]

As I said back in Feb, the Boeing 717 never met SW's fleet requirements...

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Let's see exactly what this means, what exactly will happen and when, and what can be done about it before we go off the deep end.

Just a thought.

Bubba

Or, we could get out in front of it and be better prepared for the next round of LUV and WN version of the Golden Rule that we're about to recieve.

 

[Ty Webb]

Bubba's right. The 717's had to go, but hopefully, this can be handled in a way where people can feel they were taken care of, not taken advantage of.

 

[WildcatFan]

I don't think this deal will affect staffing levels at either airline. It's a 1:1 717s to 737s for SWA, and probably a 1:1 Diesel 9s to 717s for DAL. The only question remaining is how the accelerated phase-out of 717s from the ATN side affects captain seats and vacancies at SWA.

My gut always told me from the git-go that we'd never see a 717 in canyon blue.

My gut tells me you didnt read VDV's letter very close. He said lift will be the same, not a 1:1 conversion of 717s to 737s. Our fleet will shrink. Count on it.

 

[777forever]

Maybe its my Kentucky public school education, but something isn't adding up here.

Delta's current scope allows 153 76 seaters; add "up to" 70 more and you get to the TA limit of 223. There are 88 717s, and coincidentally enough when you consider 1.25 narrowbodies for every 1 76 seater you get 70 new 76 seat jets.

Okay great! But what about those DC9 retirements they mention in the press release?

The way I read it, management will add 88 narrowbodies worth of 76 seat growth, but the net gain in mainline aircraft will be less than 88 planes...?

Also, the TA would restrict 50-70 seat small jets to a grand total of 125...right? So how do they get to the 325 number in the press release?

Net gain of mainline aircraft will be more than 88 planes. 100 737-900s on the way. Net gain of regional aircraft will be -200 50 seaters plus 70 76 seaters= total net gain of -130 DCI. That flying will be replaced by 717s

Win Win

 

[Lear70]

Or, we could get out in front of it and be better prepared for the next round of LUV and WN version of the Golden Rule that we're about to recieve.

Which is what I was advocating a month and a half ago and is what got ALPA started developing contingency plans for this... it was the last thing I did on the NC before shuffling to CCC.

That's why we have a plan in place, and now that we know how the deal is structured, the MEC can move forward dealing with it. The only thing we know for sure, with the Southwest response to Jim's letter of yesterday, is that it's not going to be anything quick in terms of "benefit" to offset this massive loss.

Be patient, and try not to get your blood pressure up over things we can't control. They made a business decision that is different than what they told us during negotiations and road shows. How they deal with that and the fallout in terms of employee morale that they have to integrate remains to be seen.

I remain hopeful that something positive comes of this for all of us...

 

[Lear70]

My gut tells me you didnt read VDV's letter very close. He said lift will be the same, not a 1:1 conversion of 717s to 737s. Our fleet will shrink. Count on it.

Winner.

 

[StopNTSing]

I think there are only 17 DC9s left, and they will supposedly stick around until 2014. We are also adding 27 MD90s this year, maybe more the next, and 100 737-900s start coming in this Summer, but they are set to replace some older 757s and domestic 767s. I think there will be some hiring.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Thanks for the info, GL. Thought you guys still had many more -9s in the fleet.

 

[StopNTSing]

My gut tells me you didnt read VDV's letter very close. He said lift will be the same, not a 1:1 conversion of 717s to 737s. Our fleet will shrink. Count on it.

I won't count on it, but won't count the possibilty out either. There are so many other factors that could influence fleet size over the next few years (like who's in the White House come Jan '13, among others) that we'll just have to wait & see...

 

[StopNTSing]

Net gain of mainline aircraft will be more than 88 planes. 100 737-900s on the way.

How many 757s will those be replacing?

 

[saabcaptain]

the fleet will shrink. they will save jobs by using retirements and asking for concessions or pay freezes in the section 6. this adds years to upgrades for any southwest first officer who doesn't upgrade by 2015 although it will allow more to do so before then.

 

[777forever]

How many 757s will those be replacing?

A few 757s and a few 767. Not many. Mostly growth

 

[COpilot]

We'd better accept that dog of a TA fast so we don't loose the 717s!!!

You don't have to make light of the situation; when all is said and done we both know it's going to pass. My guess 57% approval.

No flame, just how votes seem to always go in this modern age.

 

[KarmaPolice]

This is still no reason to vote in that POS TA. Does anyone actually believe that if the pilots vote it down that Delta management is going to alter it's long term business plan? These planes are going to come to you regardless. Please raise the bar for us. We at UniCal are counting on you.

If this TA passes, it will be the selfish senior butt holes who sell out the entire pilot profession. THERE IS NO REASON TO GIVE ONE INCH ON SCOPE! WE ARE MAKING BILLIONS!!!!!

 

[amcnd]

Net gain of mainline aircraft will be more than 88 planes. 100 737-900s on the way. Net gain of regional aircraft will be -200 50 seaters plus 70 76 seaters= total net gain of -130 DCI. That flying will be replaced by 717s

Win Win

Don't forget the MD90's.....

 

[Jiminmem]

You don't have to make light of the situation; when all is said and done we both know it's going to pass. My guess 57% approval.

No flame, just how votes seem to always go in this modern age.

As much as I hate this TA, that is the way I see it going.