It's Official...The 717's are going to Delta

[scoreboardII]

Nothing like adding a little fuel to the fire... Nice work SWA.

 

[CptMurf]

"Our plans to continue to integrate current AirTran Employees into the Southwest operation over the next several years are not changed by this tentative agreement. The Pilots will now transition directly from the 717s to the 737s, and the Flight Attendants and Maintenance personnel are currently trained on both fleets. I’m sure that many of you will have additional questions and we will have time to work through all those details before the first 717 leaves the fleet more than a year from now."

I read that too, but there are still some holes to fill in here. Notice how the DAL press release states that the transfer would only happen if the TA is approved. So the reason I asked is this from PCL 128 on another thread...

Sorry, too lazy. The quick version is that the fragmentation language kicks in if airplanes that represent more than 30% of our block hours are transferred to another carrier within a 12 month period of time. If that happens, then the company is required to negotiate for the pilots to go with the planes, based on standard company staffing for that number of planes.

So the question remains.

 

[Homer Jay]

This is still no reason to vote in that POS TA. Does anyone actually believe that if the pilots vote it down that Delta management is going to alter it's long term business plan? These planes are going to come to you regardless. Please raise the bar for us. We at UniCal are counting on you.

 

[StopNTSing]

I don't think this deal will affect staffing levels at either airline. It's a 1:1 717s to 737s for SWA, and probably a 1:1 Diesel 9s to 717s for DAL. The only question remaining is how the accelerated phase-out of 717s from the ATN side affects captain seats and vacancies at SWA.

My gut always told me from the git-go that we'd never see a 717 in canyon blue.

 

[General Lee]

I know this is alittle off topic. But what would this do for staffing at Delta? Saying they down the DC9. # of Newhires. And what would upgrade time drop to?? GL? Any guesses?

On the flip side. SWA remains flat the next 3 years. Then growth?? Or new those deferals on the 800's would come and replace the old 737's??

I have heard they are keeping the DC9s around now until 2014. Big retirements start in the next few years, so that coupled with 717s coming in at 3 a month, plus 100 737-900s coming in, means there could be a lot of movement. I think the upgrade time would drop, but I don't know what it is now. Some guys junior to me around the 12 year mark currently are bottom Captains, but they fly very junior on the DC9 or MD88. I would think that would drop quickly.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I don't think this deal will affect staffing levels at either airline. It's a 1:1 717s to 737s for SWA, and probably a 1:1 Diesel 9s to 717s for DAL. The only question remaining is how the accelerated phase-out of 717s from the ATN side affects captain seats and vacancies at SWA.

I think there are only 17 DC9s left, and they will supposedly stick around until 2014. We are also adding 27 MD90s this year, maybe more the next, and 100 737-900s start coming in this Summer, but they are set to replace some older 757s and domestic 767s. I think there will be some hiring.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[chris69]

Or look at the big picture. Is there some sort of unofficial alliance forming between DAL/NWA and SWA for the upcoming blood match with the rest of the industry? Both sides solidifying their balance sheets with recent announcements. There seems to be something slightly underhanded going on...just first thoughts.

 

[General Lee]

Southwest Airlines, Delta Air Lines, And Boeing Capital Reach A Tentative Agreement To Sublease AirTran Boeing 717 Fleet

717s Would Depart the Southwest Fleet Beginning Mid-2013






DALLAS, May 22, 2012 /PRNewswire/ --Southwest Airlines confirmed today that the airline, together with its subsidiary, AirTran Airways, Inc., has reached a tentative agreement with Delta Air Lines, Inc., and Boeing Capital Corp., to sublease all 88 of its Boeing 717 aircraft to Delta. A final agreement is subject to Delta and Southwest reaching certain agreements with all parties related to the aircraft leases. The tentative agreement between Southwest and Delta would transition the 717s over three years starting in the second half of 2013 with completion in 2015.



"This is a very complex transaction that requires time and close coordination with multiple parties. While we do have a tentative agreement with Delta, final details must be completed with all parties before a binding agreement between Delta and Southwest can be completed," said Mike Van de Ven, Southwest Airlines' Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer.

A transition of the 717s was an option that the airline acknowledged when it executed its fleet agreement with the Boeing Co. The plan calls for the transition of approximately three 717 aircraft per month beginning in mid-2013. Southwest is not releasing any additional details about the tentative agreement at this time. The Company currently plans to keep the total fleet count relatively flat as the 717s transition to Delta.

Southwest's plans to integrate current AirTran Employees into the Southwest operation over the next several years remain unchanged. All Pilots would train and transition directly into the airline's 737 fleet as the 717s are reduced. AirTran Flight Attendants and Maintenance personnel are currently trained on both aircraft types. Southwest would replace AirTran's 717 flying with 737 aircraft, and would work with individual airports on facilities transition timelines. Southwest affirms its current plans to maintain service to all previously announced airports.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWA Bubba]

So every Airtran pilot lost there seat. If they dont snap the pay up soon there will have a riot. Way to go SWorst.

Nice invective. We don't know exactly what this means yet, so maybe you could hold off on the torches and pitchforks for a little bit, okay? For instance the integration transition has to be complete by 1 Jan 2015, and accorrding to the timeline above, there'll still be 36 of the 88 planes at SWA. That's a contractual problem, unless SWA wants to change them to Southwest colors and interiors for one year and THEN send them to Delta.

Since there is an apparent discontinuity in when the transition from Airtran-to-SWA timeline vs the "new" Airtran-to-Delta timeline, the company will have to negotiate a change. You'd think that the company would have to offer the pilots (the affected pilots, that is) something to get SWAPA to agree to another year in transition, but I doubt that your "snap up the pay sooner or we'll riot" negotiation strategy is the proper opening offer. You know?

Let's see exactly what this means, what exactly will happen and when, and what can be done about it before we go off the deep end. Labeling management "SWorst" for making what is probably a smart business decision is a little childish.

Just a thought.

Bubba

 

[Noserider76]

This is still no reason to vote in that POS TA. Does anyone actually believe that if the pilots vote it down that Delta management is going to alter it's long term business plan? These planes are going to come to you regardless. Please raise the bar for us. We at UniCal are counting on you.

Does the DL TA not raise your rates dramatically? DL TA rates look like about a 50% pay increase for a 12 year United 320 FO.