It's Official...The 717's are going to Delta

[Crash Pad]

I just haven't seen (AA/TWA, US/AWA, DAL/NWA, UAL/CAL or any regional airline integration) where the smaller airline loses all their captain seats.

Shuttle America lost all their captain seats when Chautauqua bought them in '05. Lost their longevity as well.

 

[PCL_128]

Shuttle America lost all their captain seats when Chautauqua bought them in '05. Lost their longevity as well.

Shuttle America was bankrupt and losing their airplanes.

 

[Speedtape]

So, the question remains.... Would this trigger the AirTran fragmentation policy allowing a certain amount of AirTran pilots to go to Delta under the ALPA merger policy?

PCL-128?

No, but it will trigger 68 more 76-seat RJs to the 223 cap.

 

[Lear70]

I miss premium time...

I get FLICA alerts and haven't seen a single premium trip in months... sucks. Last year I made bank with those, dropping one trip a month and waiting for the premium to show up. These new line values and block hours blow.

 

[waveflyer]

SWA says 'You're welcome' for that contract you currently have. No sweat.

 

[PCL_128]

SWA says 'You're welcome' for that contract you currently have. No sweat.

 

[waveflyer]

Ahh- nice signature PCL-
The old "stay classy" = "go f^ck yourself"

I cannot wait until AT gets absorbed into the group- so they will not be subjected to your constant negativity-

And as for "rollseyes"- of course SWA had nothing to do with your latest contract- all just a big coincidence- nothing but a big tough win for PCL and ATALPA- I'm sure you wouldve got much more if Swa didn't come around and buy you-

 

[malibuVride]

I'm surprised nobody responded accurately to this:

What I see is a ATL base opening on the SWA side next 12 months, and the draw down of the AT base. So when you bid to come to SWA, you bid right back into ATL and fly what your Seniority can hold.

This isn't very likely. SWA doesn't have an ATL domicile. If one is announced, it will be treated as a new domicile just like LAS, DEN, etc. Giving trannies any preference would be against the SWAPA cba.

As ATL is an east coast city, and SWA has so many pilots waiting for east coast bases, I can't imagine the SWA pilots waiving that to make trannies happy.

Bottom line: When SWA announces an ATL base, it will be filled in seniority order which means RSW pilots will get plenty of those slots.

 

[Crash Pad]

Shuttle America was bankrupt and losing their airplanes.

Incorrect. They were actually turning a profit. They lost the captains seats in arbitration because the arbitrator chose CHQ's proposal exactly as it was presented.

 

[texman]

I'm surprised nobody responded accurately to this:

This isn't very likely. SWA doesn't have an ATL domicile. If one is announced, it will be treated as a new domicile just like LAS, DEN, etc. Giving trannies any preference would be against the SWAPA cba.

As ATL is an east coast city, and SWA has so many pilots waiting for east coast bases, I can't imagine the SWA pilots waiving that to make trannies happy.

Bottom line: When SWA announces an ATL base, it will be filled in seniority order which means RSW pilots will get plenty of those slots.

uh, re read my post.

 

[Uppercrust]

SWA says 'You're welcome' for that contract you currently have. No sweat.

SWA had nothing to do with it.

 

[Uppercrust]

Shuttle America was bankrupt and losing their airplanes.

Well put!

 

[zippy32]

I don't know why guys are bickering with each other here. This whole thing is on Gary Kelly. There's not a pilot on either side that had a single thing to do with this. If you aren't happy put all your anger towards GK.

 

[Daddy]

It doesn't matter now...the SLI is over. The ink is dry and we have to move on. Holding grudges against your fellow pilots will do nothing. I'm not happy about this merger either, but it is done. Something else is about to happen. If history serves, it will not be good for the pilots....especially the junior ones.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

SWA says 'You're welcome' for that contract you currently have. No sweat.

Actually Wave, this contract really isn't that great. The junior folks made out alright at the expense of the senior folks. A lot of us are not really thanking you. Next you're going to somehow take credit for AirTran hiring us in the first place, thereby giving us the opportunity to be aquired by Southwest.

 

[tankerhead]

It doesn't matter now...the SLI is over. The ink is dry and we have to move on. Holding grudges against your fellow pilots will do nothing. I'm not happy about this merger either, but it is done. Something else is about to happen. If history serves, it will not be good for the pilots....especially the junior ones.

Can't even handle what's on the plate now. Eating more will cause death.

 

[BoilerUP]

Incorrect. They were actually turning a profit. They lost the captains seats in arbitration because the arbitrator chose CHQ's proposal exactly as it was presented.

Shuttle had emerged from bankruptcy, but they were still slated to lose their airplanes.

https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=45373

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

SWA says 'You're welcome' for that contract you currently have. No sweat.

You do realize that this contract also allowed for bigger RJ's? You want credit for it, you can take the credit for all of it. You're giving Delta guys ******************** for selling out and you wants thanks for a contract that increased the size of RJ's we could code share with.

 

[fam62c]

So, given what's happening now at AT with the 717's what was the point of the whole flush bid? What happens after 1/1/15 when there are still 717's (and maybe 737's) on the AT side and those pilots can use their use their global seniority to bid out of bases and aircraft? Will the remaining 737 pilots who were awarded 717 be moved over now? If not how does this affect seniority within equipment on the AT side? Which FO's get moved to SW in what order to get the big pay raise now? What about pilots who live in Atlanta?

This thing is really messed up now, what will the AT union do when the company comes asking for more flexibility? Seniority has been thrown out the window when it comes to the transition process. The transition flows that pilots looked at when they did their system bid are now totally different. I get that AT pilots are not SW pilots and will not be treated as such or paid as such until they cross the fence but is it really necessary to keep making things worse on the AT side? I guess this is tough LUV.

 

[malibuVride]

uh, re read my post.

So when you bid to come to SWA, you bid right back into ATL and fly what your Seniority can hold.

uh, i did. There will be no 'bid right back to ATL'. There will be a master bid for all 10 bases, followed by an award based on system seniority. For many, that won't be ATL.

 

[texman]

uh, i did. There will be no 'bid right back to ATL'. There will be a master bid for all 10 bases, followed by an award based on system seniority. For many, that won't be ATL.

Ok, I see what your saying. I was just trying to throw in the positive that there will be a ATL base. So in the long run if you live in ATL you will be able to get back to ATL.

 

[Lear70]

Ok, I see what your saying. I was just trying to throw in the positive that there will be a ATL base. So in the long run if you live in ATL you will be able to get back to ATL.

I appreciate optimism, it's really all we have to fall back on, just takes a bit of time to get there every time someone moves the cheese farther away again. We WERE getting there, but now we're not only back where we started, but with the added mistrust of wondering if they likely have been planning this from the beginning and all the assurances about the 717 were smoke and mirrors.

As I also stated in my earlier post on the subject, let's say there's staffing for 15 (optimistically) ATL RON aircraft. Southwest runs, let's say 10 crews per aircraft, give or take?

That's 150 Captains, 150 F/O's.

Now, let's look at our numbers. 20% of our pilots, roughly at last survey, live in or near ATL. Let's say that ONLY those pilots want ATL (not counting those who commute from nearby stations that would want ATL also). That's 350 pilots, 175 CA's and 175 F/O's if you split the numbers.

Then there's the OSW pilots who will want ATL and who, by and large, are senior to 80% of our pilots in each seat, especially the F/O's.

So, realistically speaking, if you look at real-life numbers of who an ATL base would help, you're talking MAYBE 7%-10% MAX of our pilots, assuming 25% of the ATL seats are taken by your senior pilots (I'm betting the number will be closer to 50% of the ATL slots taken by OSW pilots).

So yes, an ATL base would be all nice and good, but 90+% of our pilots see little if any benefit to that. You're right that it's good to look on the upside for the few it helps, but for the 50% of our CA's who just got further hammered and the rest who don't care about ATL one way or another, an ATL base isn't really a game-changer.

 

[aps]

lear,
Your numbers are not close. Our smallest bases (MCO) have over 300 fo's and 300 captains. Atl will more likely be 400 plus on each side. With more overnighting aircraft. It will however start like DEN around 150 on each side and grow each month from there.

 

[Lear70]

lear,
Your numbers are not close. Our smallest bases (MCO) have over 300 fo's and 300 captains. Atl will more likely be 400 plus on each side. With more overnighting aircraft. It will however start like DEN around 150 on each side and grow each month from there.

How many RON aircraft is that?