Rumor has it that LOA 93 Arbitrator Has Ruled

[LaGarbage Man]

Good news for all of you who grow tired of the SWA/Airtran luv fest. FI should be returning to it's usual US Air East/West (You suck, No you suck more) string of threads with all the fun filled usual posters offering up their 2 cents pretty soon. As for me I am grabbing some snacks and a 12 pack and finding a bunker to hide in for awhile. Disclaimer: It is just a crew room rumor but seems to be a strong one this time around and the ruling is over due. Stay tuned.

 

[charlie2]

I think he should take a few more months.

 

[TWA Dude]

Is anybody actually unsure about what the ruling will be?

 

[charlie2]

Is anybody actually unsure about what the ruling will be?

If it is so obvious to everybody why did the arbitrator take so long? I guess it wasn't obvious to him was it. Can you tell me what specific part of the language in the LOA makes it so obvious to you?

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Not really, That is why I am heading for a bunker. I have to fly with them, You only have to taxi by us in PHX and grin and I am going to hear about it all the way back across the country. For those on FI who don't know, There is a third list of pilots at US Air that is junior to the whole lot of them no matter how this debacle turns out. I am just along for the ride.Time for me to tighten up my belts real snug and hang on.

 

[dugan jones]

Not really, That is why I am heading for a bunker. I have to fly with them, You only have to taxi by us in PHX and grin and I am going to hear about it all the way back across the country. For those on FI who don't know, There is a third list of pilots at US Air that is junior to the whole lot of them no matter how this debacle turns out. I am just along for the ride.Time for me to tighten up my belts real snug and hang on.

guess the rumors you are hearing is that it's a loss? maybe that will lead to a bunch of retirements?

 

[TWA Dude]

If it is so obvious to everybody why did the arbitrator take so long?

He was inactive for several months with illness and surgery. Plus, earlier this summer both sides requested additional time. It's simply not wise to assume an outcome based on how it takes.

Can you tell me what specific part of the language in the LOA makes it so obvious to you?

Sure. If a snapback was intended it would've included the word "snapback". It didn't. Plus, a former rep who was involved in the negotiations testified there was no snapback intended or expected.

 

[Sandhawk]

Thank goodness for the injunction prior the the Easties finding out about the loss of the LOA 93 grievance!

Maybe that is why the CIRP was activated recently???

:laugh:

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Never mind. I have checked with a few more sources and they are not hearing anything new. Sorry but I think I may have fallen victim to the rumor mill. This one likes to pop up every now and then hence my disclaimer on my first post. Ohh well at least it lets the East and West guys on FI reconnect. I imagine they are going through some withdraw not getting to chuck some excrement back and forth for a couple of weeks. Back to the new FI bitch threads, SWA vrs. Airtran. Lets see if it has the staying power of Eastholes vrs. Westicles. I doubt it.

 

[Ocity]

Kasher absolutely "Kashtrated" the Alaska Pilot group several years ago. Something like a 35% paycut for some. Alaska is a financially stable carrier to boot. For the life of me, I can't understand why ANY union would pick Kasher after that. The SOB should be banned for life.

 

[charlie2]

He was inactive for several months with illness and surgery. Plus, earlier this summer both sides requested additional time. It's simply not wise to assume an outcome based on how it takes.Sure. If a snapback was intended it would've included the word "snapback". It didn't. Plus, a former rep who was involved in the negotiations testified there was no snapback intended or expected.

"Wise"??? Are you kidding me? We are just waiting on a decision by a man. What is wise or not wise about waiting on a decision?

Why did the "wise" and wonderful ALPA put an end date in that SENTENCE? If that end date was meaningless then why put it in? We had a case that yes we will probably lose but we have a good question...why did they put an end date immediately after the pay freeze SENTENCE??????? Go on with your expertise of the RLA and explain to me the status quo provision...you need to get a job in management.

 

[Lampshade]

Why is USAPA negotiating for a contract and payrates less then the "snapback" if there so sure of the win? Good luck, win or lose... we win.

 

[Metrojet]

Is anybody actually unsure about what the ruling will be?

I now believe that Kasher is going to rule against the pilots - why would the company have gone to all the trouble and cost to get an injunction if their was a chance the pilots were going to win loa 93? Now with the judge's order, the company can control the results if the decision is against the pilots. The only thing Kasher will give the pilots is a contractual 3 percent raise that I believe was in loa 93.

Just my 2 cents

Metrojet

 

[MCDU]

I now believe that Kasher is going to rule against the pilots - why would the company have gone to all the trouble and cost to get an injunction if their was a chance the pilots were going to win loa 93? Now with the judge's order, the company can control the results if the decision is against the pilots. The only thing Kasher will give the pilots is a contractual 3 percent raise that I believe was in loa 93.

Just my 2 cents

Metrojet

I agree. That about sums it up.

M

 

[instructordude]

Kasher absolutely "Kashtrated" the Alaska Pilot group several years ago. Something like a 35% paycut for some. Alaska is a financially stable carrier to boot. For the life of me, I can't understand why ANY union would pick Kasher after that. The SOB should be banned for life.

He didn't castrate them, the Alaska pilots castrated themselves with such an ureasonable contract.

 

[becket]

He didn't castrate them, the Alaska pilots castrated themselves with such an ureasonable contract.

You don't have the slightest idea what your talking about. Please stay in the RJ and keep your MEII current.

 

[TWA Dude]

"Wise"??? Are you kidding me? We are just waiting on a decision by a man. What is wise or not wise about waiting on a decision?

Huh? I wrote, "It's simply not wise to assume an outcome based on how long it takes." (Confession: the word "long" got left out. Sorry.) What part of that don't you understand?

Why did the "wise" and wonderful ALPA put an end date in that SENTENCE?

You mean, why did your elected reps do that. My guess is having a bankruptcy judge breathing down their throats along with the threat of liquidation had some effect.

If that end date was meaningless then why put it in?

Not meaningless. Including amendable dates in RLA contracts is routine. A snapback is never implied unless explicitly stated.

Go on with your expertise of the RLA and explain to me the status quo provision...you need to get a job in management.

So now with the epithets, huh. The only thing worse than calling me 'management' would be calling me an 'Eastie'. Don't even think about it.

 

[charlie2]

Huh? I wrote, "It's simply not wise to assume an outcome based on how long it takes." (Confession: the word "long" got left out. Sorry.) What part of that don't you understand?You mean, why did your elected reps do that. My guess is having a bankruptcy judge breathing down their throats along with the threat of liquidation had some effect. Not meaningless. Including amendable dates in RLA contracts is routine. A snapback is never implied unless explicitly stated.So now with the epithets, huh. The only thing worse than calling me 'management' would be calling me an 'Eastie'. Don't even think about it.

Lighten up Francis. If you are happy that our only means of solving a dispute with management is taking years than I think you would be great in management. He had surgery big deal. We aren't asking him to conduct an amphibious assault. The DAY of my surgery (big one) I was on my laptop e-mailing my peeps. Researching legal precedent and forming a decision can be done in bed with a lap top...there is something else going on here and every pilot should be disgusted by it. That process is our only means...only means of solving a dispute with management. When he finally decides against the pilots we will have our decision and get on with life. Who knows, when us eastinfections learn that news maybe there will be a change in attitude that will benefit all US Airways pilots. Epithets?...really?

 

[Ocity]

That process is our only means...only means of solving a dispute

You're joking right? I hate to break this to you but you can't be selective about which "final and binding" arbitration is valid and which one is not.

You guys brought all this misery upon yourselves. The question is, "when will you have had enough"?

 

[eaglesview]

I personally hope the East gets everything they asked for. The reality is this East West struggle affects a small portion of the big puzzle. All of us benifit every time a pilot group makes more money, especially those of us in negotiations.

It will be interesting to see if the East gets the raise and USAPA takes the stance that the west should be brought up to their wages how many will bitch about that.

 

[charlie2]

You're joking right? I hate to break this to you but you can't be selective about which "final and binding" arbitration is valid and which one is not.

You guys brought all this misery upon yourselves. The question is, "when will you have had enough"?

Did you accidently hit "quote" on my post when you were intending to respond to someone elses? This reply has nothing to do with my post about an arbitrator taking years to make a decision.

 

[charlie2]

I personally hope the East gets everything they asked for. The reality is this East West struggle affects a small portion of the big puzzle. All of us benifit every time a pilot group makes more money, especially those of us in negotiations.

It will be interesting to see if the East gets the raise and USAPA takes the stance that the west should be brought up to their wages how many will bitch about that.

I can guarantee USAPA will take that stance and maybe the company will start complying with the law and start negotiating in good faith. Continuously repeating "Kirby proposal" is not negotiating.

 

[TWA Dude]

If you are happy that our only means of solving a dispute with management is taking years than I think you would be great in management.

My schadenfreude is small consolation for the harm you've caused us.

He had surgery big deal.

You want to continue complaining about how long arbitrators take then more power to you. My only response was to you was thinking the length had something to do with the complexity of the case and therefore somehow favored the pilots. It doesn't.

Epithets?...really?

Calling a regular union-member pilot (and democrat) a management type is indeed an epithet. But at least nobody can call me an Eastie.

 

[charlie2]

My schadenfreude gesundheit is small consolation for the harm you've caused us.You want to continue complaining about how long arbitrators take then more power to you. Management is very happy about it and you seem to be too so all I'm saying is you have this in common with management. My only response was to you was thinking the length had something to do with the complexity of the case and therefore somehow favored the pilots. It doesn't.Calling a regular union-member pilot (and democrat) a management type is indeed an epithet. OK I wont do it anymore you slimy liberal (just kidding) But at least nobody can call me an Eastie.

There may be some issue in the future that you personally are waiting for an arbitrators decsion. I'm sincere when I say I hope they don't do this to you. What do you think of my suggestion that after we get the award there might be a change in attitude out east?

 

[charlie2]

My only response was to you was thinking the length had something to do with the complexity of the case.

Complex? I thought you implied (or maybe I inferred) that it is obvious that the pilots will lose? Complex? We asked an arbitrator to make a decision on what the "end" date in the pay "freeze" part of the LOA means and that takes years?

 

[TWA Dude]

Complex? I thought you implied (or maybe I inferred) that it is obvious that the pilots will lose? Complex? We asked an arbitrator to make a decision on what the "end" date in the pay "freeze" part of the LOA means and that takes years?

You need serious work on your reading comprehension so I'll try not to be too obtuse. There's no correlation between how complex or non complex a case is and how long it takes an arbitrator to issue his ruling. In other words, a simple case may take a long time or it may not. By the same token, a complex case might take significantly longer than a simple one -- or it may not. Arbitrators work at their own pace and there isn't a darn thing anybody can do about it. Always been that way and always will be.

Verstehst du?

 

[charlie2]

Is anybody actually unsure about what the ruling will be?

No, you implied it.

 

[charlie2]

Verstehst du?

NY und du?

 

[charlie2]

You need serious work on your reading comprehension so I'll try not to be too obtuse. There's no correlation between how complex or non complex a case is and how long it takes an arbitrator to issue his ruling. In other words, a simple case may take a long time or it may not. By the same token, a complex case might take significantly longer than a simple one -- or it may not. Arbitrators work at their own pace and there isn't a darn thing anybody can do about it. Always been that way and always will be.

Verstehst du?

Yep, I agree with you. It's sad that us union pilot's only recourse is to wait years for a decision on a disagreement with management on something as unimportant as our pay.

 

[charlie2]

You need serious work on your reading comprehension so I'll try not to be too obtuse.

If I'm not comprehending you than I'm the obtuse one not you! So what do you think of my suggestion?