SWA/AAI SLI agreement in principle.

[texman]

What's the hire date range for 89-90000's #'s?

2008 or the last wave of 06-07. This goes for Super Sr mid AT fo's too. I'm trying to run the numbers to see if it holds true.

 

[Jakejett]

2008 or the last wave of 06-07. This goes for Super Sr mid AT fo's too. I'm trying to run the numbers to see if it holds true.

I was just trying to figure out what it will be for the next new hire.

 

[Lear70]

I will say if you are 35-40 year of age and a mid level AT capt, you have had a major win fall. Just be humble and learn from the person that has been on property at SWA longer than you.

There aren't but a handful of those younger CA's here. The vast majority of CA's, including those in the junior range, are in their early- and mid-40's to late 50's. The junior CA's that were ratio'd in with your senior F/O's won't see a line for at least 10-12 years. Yes, they're seat protected, but approximately 5 out of 6 SWA F/O's who upgrade will be senior to them because of the ratio, which will keep the junior AAI CA's on reserve for a long time to come and they'll be the ones getting bounced from base to base as the staffing flexes seasonally.

Another thing to remember is that it will take nearly 3 years from now to integrate operations. Most of the fences are only in place for one year after that (4 years from this September), so in reality there's only a one year fence after full integration.

There are also some protections that aren't in the papers that leaked to you guys. That briefing was for AAI pilots and, therefore, was geared to point out the benefits and protections and didn't mention many of the things that benefit the SWA pilots. Since some of you have asked me not to comment further on the AIP, I'll simply say you should wait for the ENTIRE THING to come out with full language before you decide, then make up your mind.

I'm sure we'll have more information later this week or early the next.

 

[huronip]

Lear,

I thought it was a 10 year fence now you guys are saying it's only a 4 year fence? I guess I'm confused. If you don't want to post on here could you please PM me? Thanks.

 

[fugghedabowdit]

I believe seat protection and a fence are two different things.

 

[humveedriver]

I will say if you are 35-40 year of age and a mid level AT capt, you have had a major win fall. Just be humble and learn from the person that has been on property at SWA longer than you.

Good advice.

 

[maru657]

So, one pilot group assumes it's superior to the other and demands a seniority advantage? I'll bet an arbitrator would level out the playing field somewhat.

 

[redflyer65]

Good luck with that.

 

[madjack]

I believe seat protection and a fence are two different things.

Lear, can you elaborate?

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

I thought it was a 10 year fence now you guys are saying it's only a 4 year fence? I guess I'm confused. If you don't want to post on here could you please PM me? Thanks.

The seat and equipment fence is 3 years (I got a phone call correcting me, 4 was initially passed around by some reps) and you're right, I misspoke (in a hurry out the door to drop off my son), the ATL fence and CA seat protections are 10 years.

If SWA grows as-planned, the 10-year CA "safety net" won't matter in 4-5 years anyway, as all the SWA's F/O's who are senior to them on the combined list will have upgraded.

Sorry for the confusion...

 

[saabcaptain]

still a bit confused Lear70...

so you say "seat" and equipment fence is 3 years but ATL fence and CA "seat" protection is 10 years. what does this mean? if you are a Airtran pilot who can hold ATL as a Captain you are going to keep that seat for a decade but if you can't hold ATL under your current system (MCO, MKE whatever base) you lose your seat in 3. Obviously you know I am a SWA pilot, I am just trying to figure out if all your current Captains are protected for 10 years, or just some subset.

 

[airlinepilot]

A 10 year fence in ATL?????? Do all the SWA bases get a 10 year Ca fence?

 

[b747dogg]

Lear,
Where does the integration start? 93? below the current SWA captains?
PM me if you want. Thanks for the top secret info.

 

[Tripower455]

A 10 year fence in ATL?????? Do all the SWA bases get a 10 year Ca fence?

Probably not! That wouldn't be "fair and equitable" to the AT guys!

 

[AFcitrus]

All agreed on but lets be clear this is an acquisition not a merger

Actually, let's be clear that the corporate acquisition has already taken place. Now what is happening is an operational merger. This is much the same as when Delta aqcuired NW and subsequently merged the operations. Have a nice day.

 

[Empennage]

Oh Oh please tell us, tell us what the problem is oh please. Your are killing us all with your special info you have on PPrune.

Not on PPrune. I was simply referring to what has been posted on here (there's only a few pages of it). Good post however!

 

[greenpilot]

still a bit confused Lear70...

so you say "seat" and equipment fence is 3 years but ATL fence and CA "seat" protection is 10 years. what does this mean? if you are a Airtran pilot who can hold ATL as a Captain you are going to keep that seat for a decade but if you can't hold ATL under your current system (MCO, MKE whatever base) you lose your seat in 3. Obviously you know I am a SWA pilot, I am just trying to figure out if all your current Captains are protected for 10 years, or just some subset.

first off this is all rumor. Airtran captains seats are protected for 10 years. If they can't hold atl they will go where there are capt openings. If there are no openings they are back to the right seat, but they will have first rights to the next captain openings. Almost all captain slots due to growth and retirement will go to SWA FO's this is due to almost all airtran fo's being placed at the bottom of the list. As far as the 3 year equipment lock. If you are on the 717 you are stuck on the 717 for the next 3 years. when this is all done the 717 may have multiple bases.
Remember, these are all rumors as is everything lear70 is saying. Don't get to worked up. In a few week the facts will be release and then we can all make an informed decision.

 

[K69]

It seems almost pointless to post anything on this topic, but I felt the need to say something, at least. I see no reason to be completely ugly and unprofessional to each other even when the official details come out and it is not what you want or expected. Doing so only adds to the stress and tension of this whole process that was initially played way up as "One Luv" and happy to have the AT crew members aboard. This acquisition was a decision at the corporate level and above the pay grade of anyone on this forum, most likely. It is shocking to see the level to which some pilots on both sides of the fence have lowered themselves to with the comments made. Someday you might have to share a cockpit with each other.

We all want the best for ourselves, our families, and our companies. Not every person is going to get what he or she wants out of this deal; seniority will be lost, upgrades delayed, bases changed, etc. We need to realize this and stop the hostile, negative vibes. Wait for the official SLI to come out and then take a good hard look at it, using your brain and not your emotions or ego. Think about what it is like for the pilots in the other group. Let's get this SLI done in a fair manner and move towards our common goals; both sides are on the verge of much bigger and better things with plenty of the rewards to go around in the future.

I certainly hope that there are more of you out there that feel this way. I am sure there are. Take the time to voice your opinion here.

Cheers to the future.

 

[Empennage]

It seems almost pointless to post anything on this topic, but I felt the need to say something, at least. I see no reason to be completely ugly and unprofessional to each other even when the official details come out and it is not what you want or expected. Doing so only adds to the stress and tension of this whole process that was initially played way up as "One Luv" and happy to have the AT crew members aboard. This acquisition was a decision at the corporate level and above the pay grade of anyone on this forum, most likely. It is shocking to see the level to which some pilots on both sides of the fence have lowered themselves to with the comments made. Someday you might have to share a cockpit with each other.

We all want the best for ourselves, our families, and our companies. Not every person is going to get what he or she wants out of this deal; seniority will be lost, upgrades delayed, bases changed, etc. We need to realize this and stop the hostile, negative vibes. Wait for the official SLI to come out and then take a good hard look at it, using your brain and not your emotions or ego. Think about what it is like for the pilots in the other group. Let's get this SLI done in a fair manner and move towards our common goals; both sides are on the verge of much bigger and better things with plenty of the rewards to go around in the future.

I certainly hope that there are more of you out there that feel this way. I am sure there are. Take the time to voice your opinion here.

Cheers to the future.

Thank you. This is avery professional and mature post. I for one certainly appreciate it.

 

[airlinepilot]

Air Tran pilots don't need to worry about this passing. I doubt if the SWA pilots will be willing to let a 10 year fence fly.

 

[tankerhead]

Why not? Keeps most of the trash in the dumpster, right?

 

[airlinepilot]

I fly on Air Tran every week. They have always treated me great and I think they do a great job on the ground and in the air.

As a SWA pilot I don't think their acquisition brings much to the plate for us other than some increase on the SLI and another base (Atl). There are some of us that want to look at Atlanta but a 10 fence is too long. I guess it will all depend on the language. I have a good friend that is a junior 737 Capt.... he said me might just be happy to fly as a FO if it means he can have weekends, holidays and more pay. So, I would not be surprised if there are some Capts in ATL that would rather live close to home (if one of our bases is home) rather than commute, fly on weekends and holiday....we will see. I just don't want ATL fenced forever unless we get the same for our bases.

 

[tankerhead]

Very thoughtful answer to my silly one-liner.

 

[Flying the Line]

I don't think AT captains will be relegated to reserve positions all across the system for the following reason. All AT 737s will be in ATL which is fenced. The 717 is also fenced, even if the fence comes down, there will probably be no movement to force people out of seat or even lineholder status. Sure the 717 could be split 3 ways, ATL, MCO, and BWI. But after they are in place there will "probably" be very little shuffling.

 

[Lear70]

I don't think AT captains will be relegated to reserve positions all across the system for the following reason. All AT 737s will be in ATL which is fenced.

I don't know where you're getting that idea.

There are only going to be 175 737 crews in Atlanta, that's only about half our 737 crews. The 737's once repainted will likely go all over the system, the crews along with them. Once on the SWA side of the fence (after training), those junior former-AAI crews will be competing for their monthly line alongside SWA crews in whatever base they find themselves in.

The 717 is also fenced, even if the fence comes down, there will probably be no movement to force people out of seat or even lineholder status. Sure the 717 could be split 3 ways, ATL, MCO, and BWI. But after they are in place there will "probably" be very little shuffling.

The 717 certainly won't be as much of an issue as the 737. The crews, being locked in the aircraft, no matter where they go, will still bid against each other in their own relative seniority as they are now. Some mid-level crews might find themselves junior in other bases if few people senior to them bid over as the aircraft are re-tasked to other bases, but the junior people will still be junior.

The 737 is a different ball of wax entirely.

 

[Flying the Line]

Lear, I hadn't heard there will only be half of the 737 pilots left in ATL.

 

[Lear70]

Only 175 737 crews, 350 total pilots remain in ATL after the dust settles.

250 717 crews, 500 total pilots.

850 total AAI pilots remain in the A-T-L. The other 900 pilots get displaced (or voluntarily bid) somewhere else, wherever their seniority can hold.

 

[asaflyer]

Only 175 737 crews, 350 total pilots remain in ATL after the dust settles.

250 717 crews, 500 total pilots.

850 total AAI pilots remain in the A-T-L. The other 900 pilots get displaced (or voluntarily bid) somewhere else, wherever their seniority can hold.

I agree with the above as stated but I'm wondering if that is only considering current state or if it figures in any growth. I would hope that we could grow to increase those requirements. Also, what about having a SW base side by side in ATL? Thoughts.

 

[K69]

Why not? Keeps most of the trash in the dumpster, right?

Nice post. This is exactly what I was talking about. I think there is a fair number of "Lovely Folks" on each side that will make this a real chore for the rest of us. What a darn shame. Both groups should check their egos at the door and get the job done fairly. I was really excited about all this until recently. All you negative folks really make it hard to look forward to this.

Anyone have the number to that truck driving school?

 

[SkiFishFly]

Also isn't the 850 number a minimum? It could be more as we work through this merger. If I heard correctly, SWA planning models would call for less than 850 - this is a negotiated minimum number to offer some protection to AAI crews for the expected drop in senority.
The numbers needed in ATL could change to a higher number.