SWA/AAI SLI agreement in principle.

[SWA/FO]

Maybe in public or within earshot of SW, but not in private. I've talked to some of them and it's almost like two white guys telling a joke about black guys, they always look around first and then vent.

What? WRONG.

 

[Lear70]

As long as the AT F/O's keep their longevity for pay (which they almost certainly will), they "upgrade" to within a few $/hr of AT Capt pay the second they ink this deal. Yes, on paper they lose bidding power, but given that SWA schedules and work rules are quite a bit better than AT's, the QOL is at least as good. Bottom line, the AT F/O's have met the career expectations they had when they hired on at AT.

Serious question, along the lines of what you just posted.

I bid #7 in MCO. I hold weekends off and all holidays. I get my choice of long overnights at an international destination or west coast city, get my choice of vacation, and my choice of sim times, etc.

With the seniority loss after this, I lose my base, I'll be bidding in the BOTTOM 14% of the COMBINED seniority list and in the bottom 23% of ATL's 737 F/O list, and I'm not sure how your work rules will give me that Quality of Life back (weekends and holidays off consistently every month to spend with my family).

According to the retirement schedule at SWA and AAI combined I get my current system seniority back when my son turns 18... that's 13 years from now. I'll be 53. I'll upgrade 2-3 years after that, and will get off reserve 3-4 years after that. In other words, I'll be about 60 when I'm a line-holding CA with 5 years left to climb any higher on the list.

So where, as an F/O in percentage of a list in any given domicile, can I hold weekends and holidays off again to get my current Quality of Life back based on what you were saying about Southwest's work rules? Can I really hold that quality of life at 86% of the way down the list, just 6% above the reserve level? Then how senior do you have to be as a CA to hold that same QoL? Do I even have time left in my career for that to happen just upgrading when I'm 55-56?

Thanks for the answers, this kind of stuff is what every senior AAI F/O wants and needs to know.

 

[cappydd]

Rich, i am in about the same percentage as you are. I too would be curious as to what bases (SWA) could we hold and maybe hold a line and have somewhat of a decent QOL?
However, if being put on the bottom what would be our new "date of hire" and is that being adjusted somehow??
I may want to get out of the ATL if i could have a better line elsewhere!!

Still too many unknowns??

 

[Max Powers]

Rich, i am in about the same percentage as you are. I too would be curious as to what bases (SWA) could we hold and maybe hold a line and have somewhat of a decent QOL?
However, if being put on the bottom what would be our new "date of hire" and is that being adjusted somehow??
I may want to get out of the ATL if i could have a better line elsewhere!!

Still too many unknowns??

You know AAI schedules are pretty darn good. The vast majority are 19, 18, 17 days off. All my friends at SWA usually see the same days off. I guess the credit is probably higher but still it isn't that much better, is it?

Having a wife who out earns me makes this new pay raise an actual 10-15% increase. Not worth the staple for me. Sorry.

 

[easydoesit]

Hey Lear are you factoring in any growth?

 

[Lear70]

Hey Lear are you factoring in any growth?

No, that's zero growth projections.

They have the models for growth at different percentages, but I haven't seen them yet. In doing rough averages on my computer of 4% growth (what I consider conservative looking back on 12 years of SWA history) for 4 years out of every 10, it drops the times to get back to current relative seniority and/or upgrade by a good 30-35%.

 

[T45Flyer]

Serious question, along the lines of what you just posted.

I bid #7 in MCO. I hold weekends off and all holidays. I get my choice of long overnights at an international destination or west coast city, get my choice of vacation, and my choice of sim times, etc.

With the seniority loss after this, I lose my base, I'll be bidding in the BOTTOM 14% of the COMBINED seniority list and in the bottom 23% of ATL's 737 F/O list, and I'm not sure how your work rules will give me that Quality of Life back (weekends and holidays off consistently every month to spend with my family).

According to the retirement schedule at SWA and AAI combined I get my current system seniority back when my son turns 18... that's 13 years from now. I'll be 53. I'll upgrade 2-3 years after that, and will get off reserve 3-4 years after that. In other words, I'll be about 60 when I'm a line-holding CA with 5 years left to climb any higher on the list.

So where, as an F/O in percentage of a list in any given domicile, can I hold weekends and holidays off again to get my current Quality of Life back based on what you were saying about Southwest's work rules? Can I really hold that quality of life at 86% of the way down the list, just 6% above the reserve level? Then how senior do you have to be as a CA to hold that same QoL? Do I even have time left in my career for that to happen just upgrading when I'm 55-56?

Thanks for the answers, this kind of stuff is what every senior AAI F/O wants and needs to know.

Lear,
Good meeting you the other day. I totally understand your argument. My question to you is didn't you apply here several times before? Were you not ready to start at 1st year pay on reserve in Oakland?

I think you are in a much better position that you ever imagined. Maybe you could focus on the positive. Let's hope this deal is acceptable to all.

Take care.
-T45

 

[Flycatcher99]

No, that's zero growth projections.

They have the models for growth at different percentages, but I haven't seen them yet. In doing rough averages on my computer of 4% growth (what I consider conservative looking back on 12 years of SWA history) for 4 years out of every 10, it drops the times to get back to current relative seniority and/or upgrade by a good 30-35%.

Zero growth, huh? That's funny. I thought we were going to grow like mad after the acquisition. At least, that's what all the AAI folk kept saying was the big gain SWA folk would be getting from this deal.

 

[jonjuan]

Hey Lear are you factoring in any growth?

Positive or negative?

 

[ASADFW7]

Well life at SWA is better but it is a more senior airline. Getting to a premium base and schedule takes a lot of decision making and patience. Many points about what SWA pilots could lose so easily I think some AAI pilots are just figuring out. The SWA pilots negotiated the seniority system at SWA one bid at a time. The slowing then stopping of growth for various reasons including the planning and execution of buying a smaller airline in AAI has already impacted the SWA pilot group. SWA has many bases that fluctuate in size and created displacements and forced commutes for first officers and captains. it isn't as simple as move to a domicile, moving with kids is not easy. Housing markets, etc...

Bidding into the SWA system for AAI guys who have zero longevity in the SWA system will be a negotiated method. But make no mistake, SWA pilots are still fluctuating through the system to get closer to home, move off reserve etc... No one gives a crap about personal choice in aviation. If a pilot chooses to upgrade across country, shut up about it and suck it up is the attitude. Displacements are different to a small degree. If AAI guys choose to bid into the southwest system over junior SWA pilots, well life gets a little more complicated for all of us. The integration will protect the senior group not to be flooded with new bidding pilots. Just as ATL will have a fence, the SWA system belonged and was navigated by the SWA pilot group.

The SWA group for the most part do not care about what is lost by the AAI group, middle ground is middle ground. Our system is diluted with new pilots, making our decision and choices now at times more competitive. It will be an adjustment for you, and senior is no longer a five year first officer, think ten. Or no longer a ten year captain, think twenty. Life is good, but bigger is different.