SWA/AAI SLI agreement in principle.

[GhettoBeechjet]

Serious question, along the lines of what you just posted.

I bid #7 in MCO. I hold weekends off and all holidays. I get my choice of long overnights at an international destination or west coast city, get my choice of vacation, and my choice of sim times, etc.

With the seniority loss after this, I lose my base, I'll be bidding in the BOTTOM 14% of the COMBINED seniority list and in the bottom 23% of ATL's 737 F/O list, and I'm not sure how your work rules will give me that Quality of Life back (weekends and holidays off consistently every month to spend with my family).

According to the retirement schedule at SWA and AAI combined I get my current system seniority back when my son turns 18... that's 13 years from now. I'll be 53. I'll upgrade 2-3 years after that, and will get off reserve 3-4 years after that. In other words, I'll be about 60 when I'm a line-holding CA with 5 years left to climb any higher on the list.

So where, as an F/O in percentage of a list in any given domicile, can I hold weekends and holidays off again to get my current Quality of Life back based on what you were saying about Southwest's work rules? Can I really hold that quality of life at 86% of the way down the list, just 6% above the reserve level? Then how senior do you have to be as a CA to hold that same QoL? Do I even have time left in my career for that to happen just upgrading when I'm 55-56?

Thanks for the answers, this kind of stuff is what every senior AAI F/O wants and needs to know.

Lear,
I don't think you will loose your base. Bottom guy in MCO is currently a 2011 hire who will be junior to the last guy on the combined list. Top 60 percent can get weekends off. Top 70 percent can hold lines that have some weekends off. If you bid reserve you can get it much earlier. Even in the bottom 10 percent in MDW I have been getting either full or partial weekends off on reserve. Hope that helps.

BTW are you sure you figured you F/O seniority in ATL right after 5 years? I don't know your system but what you laid out here doesn't make sense to me.

 

[waveflyer]

Lear, I think it's been said- there are a lot of positives, but also some negatives. AT has been bought, and it's unrealistic to think that no one's life will change with this. I know I'll be called arrogant for saying it, but I don't intend that- the simple truth is that when you decide to go with a smaller growing carrier, there are risks and rewards. The reward is rapid advancement. The risk is acquisition affecting that rapid advancement. There is probably a lot of growth, pent up from our stagnation, but also might be some continued
stagnation.
In your scenario- a LOT of our careers would seem bleak- but I'm more optimistic. I honestly believe this acquisition will be good for all AT pilots- I think the company has plans for at least one more type (787's?) and that this company could quite possibly double in 10 years and be vastly different.
I understand hoping for the best and planning on the worst and that's still good advice for all. And I'll plan- but I'll really be surprised if we aren't all sharing drinks laughing about how we actually got heated over this.

 

[Old School]

Not sure if anyone has considered the daily productivity gains for AAI. I just finished a 4 day paying 32 and my next trip is a 3 day that pays 27. How much does a 3 or 4 day trip pay at AAI?

 

[PTinbound]

Geez, I can't sift through all the comments to find any actual info. Since our unions have told us squat, could someone with any decent intel put up some bullet points as to exactly how the integration will work under this proposal? What are all the conditions? Is there a formula to figure out seniority? Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to figure out my future...

 

[redflyer65]

Lear,

The other intangible over your upcoming SW career will be scheduling flexiblity. Even if you are not in your domicle of choice, you can drop and pickup as much as you would like. So by getting the extra money coming your way with this agreement, would it be big deal to drop a three day and be at home more?

The larger gorilla in the room is if this gets voted down by either side. I'm not so sure the arbitration award will look much different anyway, just without some of the perks that Gary has tossed in.

As far as growth is concerned, I do know there will be more hiring within the next year. Hawaii will start in almost a year as well. I've heard up to 25 a/c dedicated for those trips and also that Gary is interested in adding Alaska. There is no way that we won't get a new fleet type down the road as Waveflyer said. This is like getting hired at one of the legacies before they did long range international....it's on the horizon.

 

[freightdogfred]

In your scenario- a LOT of our careers would seem bleak- but I'm more optimistic. I honestly believe this acquisition will be good for all AT pilots- I think the company has plans for at least one more type (787's?) and that this company could quite possibly double in 10 years and be vastly different.
I

The proposed seniority dilution has ensured no AAI pilot will ever see that airplane, or any other new type.

 

[zippy32]

The proposed seniority dilution has ensured no AAI pilot will ever see that airplane, or any other new type.

I don't know. There are a ton of senior cowboys in DAL & HOU that will not want to learn a new plane and have no desire to learn how to fly overseas. They love sticking with the Texas Two Step on a -300. Do they make you take off your black Ropers when you go through security in Europe? That would be a huge "no-go" for our guys.

 

[Music]

I don't know. There are a ton of senior cowboys in DAL & HOU that will not want to learn a new plane and have no desire to learn how to fly overseas. They love sticking with the Texas Two Step on a -300. Do they make you take off your black Ropers when you go through security in Europe? That would be a huge "no-go" for our guys.

Agreed. That is the flaw in the argument (the assumption that EVERYONE will move to the new airplane). In my experience at multiple airlines, that is never the case. When the 737 came to AT, I bid for the upgrade (along with the 717) without giving it much thought because of my seniority at the time. So many guys bypassed it that I was awarded the upgrade in only the second vacancy bid (wasn't expecting that)! Bottom-line, while you have to make your assumptions on knowns, such as retirements and conservative growth estimates, reality is usually MUCH different (good or bad).

 

[yoyoma]

Serious question, along the lines of what you just posted.

I bid #7 in MCO. I hold weekends off and all holidays. I get my choice of long overnights at an international destination or west coast city, get my choice of vacation, and my choice of sim times, etc.

With the seniority loss after this, I lose my base, I'll be bidding in the BOTTOM 14% of the COMBINED seniority list and in the bottom 23% of ATL's 737 F/O list, and I'm not sure how your work rules will give me that Quality of Life back (weekends and holidays off consistently every month to spend with my family).

According to the retirement schedule at SWA and AAI combined I get my current system seniority back when my son turns 18... that's 13 years from now. I'll be 53. I'll upgrade 2-3 years after that, and will get off reserve 3-4 years after that. In other words, I'll be about 60 when I'm a line-holding CA with 5 years left to climb any higher on the list.

So where, as an F/O in percentage of a list in any given domicile, can I hold weekends and holidays off again to get my current Quality of Life back based on what you were saying about Southwest's work rules? Can I really hold that quality of life at 86% of the way down the list, just 6% above the reserve level? Then how senior do you have to be as a CA to hold that same QoL? Do I even have time left in my career for that to happen just upgrading when I'm 55-56?

Thanks for the answers, this kind of stuff is what every senior AAI F/O wants and needs to know.

Do you guys really not get the fact that WE BOUGHT YOU? you cant have it all! sorry you might lose your vacation time and bidding power, but someone has to lose a little in this deal. how is this so hard to grasp? you guys really need to take a look at reality. 10% raise isnt enough? 45% is good but you want to keep your seniority and bidding power too? you guys were bought... think that first.

 

[OldManPilot]

Not sure if anyone has considered the daily productivity gains for AAI. I just finished a 4 day paying 32 and my next trip is a 3 day that pays 27. How much does a 3 or 4 day trip pay at AAI?

I do primarily 4-day trips. I would say they average about 21hrs. It's a waste. Cannot wait to fly more efficient trips.