SWA/AAI SLI agreement in principle.

[freightdogfred]

In your scenario- a LOT of our careers would seem bleak- but I'm more optimistic. I honestly believe this acquisition will be good for all AT pilots- I think the company has plans for at least one more type (787's?) and that this company could quite possibly double in 10 years and be vastly different.
I

The proposed seniority dilution has ensured no AAI pilot will ever see that airplane, or any other new type.

 

[zippy32]

The proposed seniority dilution has ensured no AAI pilot will ever see that airplane, or any other new type.

I don't know. There are a ton of senior cowboys in DAL & HOU that will not want to learn a new plane and have no desire to learn how to fly overseas. They love sticking with the Texas Two Step on a -300. Do they make you take off your black Ropers when you go through security in Europe? That would be a huge "no-go" for our guys.

 

[Music]

I don't know. There are a ton of senior cowboys in DAL & HOU that will not want to learn a new plane and have no desire to learn how to fly overseas. They love sticking with the Texas Two Step on a -300. Do they make you take off your black Ropers when you go through security in Europe? That would be a huge "no-go" for our guys.

Agreed. That is the flaw in the argument (the assumption that EVERYONE will move to the new airplane). In my experience at multiple airlines, that is never the case. When the 737 came to AT, I bid for the upgrade (along with the 717) without giving it much thought because of my seniority at the time. So many guys bypassed it that I was awarded the upgrade in only the second vacancy bid (wasn't expecting that)! Bottom-line, while you have to make your assumptions on knowns, such as retirements and conservative growth estimates, reality is usually MUCH different (good or bad).

 

[yoyoma]

Serious question, along the lines of what you just posted.

I bid #7 in MCO. I hold weekends off and all holidays. I get my choice of long overnights at an international destination or west coast city, get my choice of vacation, and my choice of sim times, etc.

With the seniority loss after this, I lose my base, I'll be bidding in the BOTTOM 14% of the COMBINED seniority list and in the bottom 23% of ATL's 737 F/O list, and I'm not sure how your work rules will give me that Quality of Life back (weekends and holidays off consistently every month to spend with my family).

According to the retirement schedule at SWA and AAI combined I get my current system seniority back when my son turns 18... that's 13 years from now. I'll be 53. I'll upgrade 2-3 years after that, and will get off reserve 3-4 years after that. In other words, I'll be about 60 when I'm a line-holding CA with 5 years left to climb any higher on the list.

So where, as an F/O in percentage of a list in any given domicile, can I hold weekends and holidays off again to get my current Quality of Life back based on what you were saying about Southwest's work rules? Can I really hold that quality of life at 86% of the way down the list, just 6% above the reserve level? Then how senior do you have to be as a CA to hold that same QoL? Do I even have time left in my career for that to happen just upgrading when I'm 55-56?

Thanks for the answers, this kind of stuff is what every senior AAI F/O wants and needs to know.

Do you guys really not get the fact that WE BOUGHT YOU? you cant have it all! sorry you might lose your vacation time and bidding power, but someone has to lose a little in this deal. how is this so hard to grasp? you guys really need to take a look at reality. 10% raise isnt enough? 45% is good but you want to keep your seniority and bidding power too? you guys were bought... think that first.

 

[OldManPilot]

Not sure if anyone has considered the daily productivity gains for AAI. I just finished a 4 day paying 32 and my next trip is a 3 day that pays 27. How much does a 3 or 4 day trip pay at AAI?

I do primarily 4-day trips. I would say they average about 21hrs. It's a waste. Cannot wait to fly more efficient trips.

 

[waveflyer]

The proposed seniority dilution has ensured no AAI pilot will ever see that airplane, or any other new type.

You don't know that. And the dynamics of this airline are VERY different. As I said before, most of us at swa have prioritized many things over the traditional legacy career. First, this group is very unified in having one blended rate that we all receive (once integrated) no matter what type you fly. Ala UPS/AWA. We want pilots to fly the airplane they WANT to fly and not bouncing around in training events chasing money, while costing the company $. The old school Texan flying the -300 will be paid the same TFP as the BWI 70,000# new 787 captain. There's a lot of pride in that 1 time zone flying.

Its an adjustment here. So are the FO payrates. We used to have forced upgrades and bad enough FO pay that most everyone upgraded as soon as possible. That's not the case anymore and more are choosing to stay senior, still making north of $170k, and leaving the tiller alone for a few extra years. This is the beauty of making that extra rate. Some AT guys have tried to minimize the $$- but it truly changes the dynamics. At AT, bc we all compete for goods in the marketplace, where most every cop makes AT FO $$ and a lot of teachers- much less all the engineers and business types, lawyers, and doctors- the "UPGRADE" is very important. When you're at a W2 above what most professionals earn- the upgrade is nice, it is NOT something you must do to be responsible for your family.

And I can't overstate the growth I'm hearing about on the horizon. Rumor is we didn't need to stay as stagnant as we've been. There's been a backlog of plans unimplemented that will go forward as a way to grease this integration through. Stock options are one thing- when you see long time FOs upgrade and all pilots working in a dynamic bid and getting to their prefered base and buying new hires drinks on overnights and at the Wyndham (a solid pre recurrent pastime--> things get a lot more positive. It's been said that's the master plan. -800's, etops, Alaska, hawaii, farther into the Americas, Europe, 787's or equivalent---> it keeps going...

 

[Lear70]

Good comments by all, I appreciate everyone's input (Yes, even T45 and yoyoma's)...

Like I said in that post, I truly wasn't trying to be negative, I just wanted to hear what the realities were of being in that bidding percentage. Being prepared for something makes it easier to adjust, or at least that's how I've found it to be. Thanks to those who answered.

Looking forward to seeing what the MC and NC come back with once the MEC sends it out to us. Until then, ya'll fly safe, and I look forward to meeting more of you out there.

 

[canyonblue]

The larger gorilla in the room is if this gets voted down by either side. I'm not so sure the arbitration award will look much different anyway, just without some of the perks that Gary has tossed in.

And that is the best observation in this thread. I wonder how an Arbitrator would rule, when they look at an AIP that was reached by both Unions and delivered by the company. Whatever this looks like, it may well be the best offer out there. The worst thing would be waiting months, and then only realizing the same SLI we all just agreed to.

 

[yoyoma]

Good comments by all, I appreciate everyone's input (Yes, even T45 and yoyoma's)...

Like I said in that post, I truly wasn't trying to be negative, I just wanted to hear what the realities were of being in that bidding percentage. Being prepared for something makes it easier to adjust, or at least that's how I've found it to be. Thanks to those who answered.

Looking forward to seeing what the MC and NC come back with once the MEC sends it out to us. Until then, ya'll fly safe, and I look forward to meeting more of you out there.

heres one reality for you... how many days off a month do you get now? 12-16? i get 17-19. 3 x 12 = 36 thats an extra month off a year! forget your vacation, you just earned an extra 4 weeks.

 

[maru657]

Do you guys really not get the fact that WE BOUGHT YOU? you cant have it all! sorry you might lose your vacation time and bidding power, but someone has to lose a little in this deal. how is this so hard to grasp? you guys really need to take a look at reality. 10% raise isnt enough? 45% is good but you want to keep your seniority and bidding power too? you guys were bought... think that first.

This argument may be the problem with airline merger. "WE" didn't buy anyone. The holding Corp you work for bought another asset.

 

[yoyoma]

This argument may be the problem with airline merger. "WE" didn't buy anyone. The holding Corp you work for bought another asset.

you obviously dont work for swa...because its "we" airline. WE built this airline together, and WE purchased aai with OUR hard work.

 

[767/757]

I do primarily 4-day trips. I would say they average about 21hrs. It's a waste. Cannot wait to fly more efficient trips.

No skin in the game but are the trips at SWA more efficient or do they pay better credit?

Thank you,

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

No skin in the game but are the trips at SWA more efficient or do they pay better credit?

Thank you,

More credit per day worked.

 

[Tripower455]

No skin in the game but are the trips at SWA more efficient or do they pay better credit?

Thank you,

Most likely both. I realize he is using hours, and we use "trips", but our 4 days average 28-30 trips for pay. I'm not sure how that compares pay wise, but I'll go out on a limb and say that we get paid a bit more for the TAFB.

 

[curtaindriver]

you obviously dont work for swa...because its "we" airline. WE built this airline together, and WE purchased aai with OUR hard work.

Haha!! We have knuckleheads at JetBlue that say the same thing. Let me ask you........were you involved in route planning? In revenue managent? Did you help secure the swaps and collars for your fuel hedging program? I doubt it.
You, like thousands of others flew from point A to point B safely.....that's all........nothing else.....get over yourself.

CD