SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[scoreboardII]

Greed is good.

Gordon Gecko.

 

[dicko]

As for the APA comment- Are you saying that the APA is responsible for the culture at AA??

I was referring to the attitude the APA had towards the TWA pilots. I believe they compared them to Wall Mart. We both know how they treated them in the SLI.

They were arrogant and Karma hasn't treated them well.

I understand there were other forces at work also. They'll be in front of a judge shortly.

 

[RLAblows]

Greed is good.

Gordon Gecko.

Then he went to prison. Worked out pretty good for Gecko.

 

[scoreboardII]

I guess you didn't see the next movie...

 

[Tripower455]

That doesn't make any sense.

All I keep hearing is money money money, it really makes one believe that if it were a 1999, 2000 environment in the industry you guys would all be trying to get on at United and Delta, and not giving a rip about your "culture." All I hear is greed on this message board.

I very briefly considered leaving SW for DL in '98, but couldn't afford to risk a furlough, besides, I didn't meet their hiring qualifications with 10K+ hours, 5 type ratings, 12 years in the 121 world.

I wake up every day firmly believing that it's far better to be lucky than good!

 

[RLAblows]

I very briefly considered leaving SW for DL in '98, but couldn't afford to risk a furlough, besides, I didn't meet their hiring qualifications with 10K+ hours, 5 type ratings, 12 years in the 121 world.

I wake up every day firmly believing that it's far better to be lucky than good!

I appreciate your honesty. Very true about this industry when it comes to luck and timing. I've been pretty lucky so far.

 

[Tripower455]

I appreciate your honesty. Very true about this industry when it comes to luck and timing. I've been pretty lucky so far.

I am so lucky I never finished my 4 year degree...... I might have actually gone to Delta.

Oh, and I was not actively looking to leave SW. My old man was a Pan Amer that went to DL with with the Atlantic routes (that really started DL in the international business). A contemporary of his that got an office job after he turned 60 worked in some capacity in hiring. They were actually having a hard time finding qualified applicants at that time, and the guy knew I was a pilot. He called my old man and asked him if I were interested in a job at DL. I hadn't really considered leaving SW, as I really liked the company, but the pay and retirement numbers were a bit better over at DL. The nagging issue was losing my seniority, and the very real risk of a furlough ( the country was showing signs of the coming recession). It was really a tough decision, so I decided to fill out the UPAS app, and then, make the decision if I got the job. Before I filled out the flight time grid (I hadn't totalled my logbook in over 3 years at that point), I decided to check the minimum requirements. When I read that a 4 year degree was one of the requirements (the only one I didn't meet in spades, BTW), I called my old man, and he called his friend to ask. The guy didn't think it would be a big deal, considering my other quals, but he made a call, and was exasperated that they wouldn't waive that considering my experience. I was actually relieved that I wouldn't have to make a tough decision (a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush), and obviously, I am far better off than had I gone over.

I never looked at going anywhere else after getting hired at SW. After having an active application on file for over 8 years, UAL finally called me for an interview about 6 months after I got hired, and I never even responded, although I did consider going to the interview wearing a pair of jeans, a SW tee shirt, leather jacket and ropers just to see their reaction to my total disdain I have/had for their hiring practices.

 

[RLAblows]

I never looked at going anywhere else after getting hired at SW. After having an active application on file for over 8 years, UAL finally called me for an interview about 6 months after I got hired, and I never even responded, although I did consider going to the interview wearing a pair of jeans, a SW tee shirt, leather jacket and ropers just to see their reaction to my total disdain I have/had for their hiring practices.

Good story. I particularly like the last part. I think we all have the same sentiment when it came down to UAL and their hiring practices. It probably helped contribute to the sinking of the USS United in training costs alone. When/if I get over to the SWA side beers are on me.

 

[SWA/FO]

just to see their reaction to my total disdain I have/had for their hiring practices.

Yep... they were tough.

RLAblows.... get over here! I like free Beers!!

 

[Lear70]

JT,

Sure be interesting to know what year you were hired at Airtran......... I'm thinking you're one of the Captains that's junior to our senior FO's.

He's not.

You have been bought by a company that pays and treats its pilots better than your old one. Start at the bottom like everyone else or stay fenced at your old pay/benefits and seat...don't scoff at the money that just makes you look greedy...

I thought we talked about that... a staple just isn't going to happen, nor is fencing off the operation. So why do you keep insisting on talking about it and deliberately irritating us?

It'll all work out, my friend. Just gotta have a little faith. Enjoy your weekend... :beer:

 

[Lear70]

I never looked at going anywhere else after getting hired at SW. After having an active application on file for over 8 years, UAL finally called me for an interview about 6 months after I got hired, and I never even responded, although I did consider going to the interview wearing a pair of jeans, a SW tee shirt, leather jacket and ropers just to see their reaction to my total disdain I have/had for their hiring practices.

I'd have like to have been a fly on the wall for that interview...

 

[JT12345]

JT12345,

But you need to come to terms that you will still have a job, a good one at that.

That's the point. Well done. What is the point of the money if you are on the street.

Seniority is gold bullion. Everything else is fleeting.


I like all the guys hired the last 12-15 years acting like SWA is the world to them. The only place. Really the word was out about how great SWA was after the early 90s. I think they whethered that storm very well after the Iraq war and raised eyebrows. Those hired before that are the ones with the ghonas like Gup. They took the risk. Made it the place it is... or maybe was... from what I am reading on here.

Seems like most of the guys and girls hired in this decade at SWA have not faced a lot of adversity in their careers prior to being hired and during their tenure there. Sorry to wake you up to the dynamics and unstablity of the industry. I know you had your caeer planned out for the next 30 years, but you should not be doing that unless you want to be disappointed.

We all need to pull together on this because the second you let up someone else will take advantage of it in this business.

 

[SWA/FO]

I thought we do this for money? It is about money. Balance is good, but money pays for things and helps you not work - someday in the future (age 72).

 

[JT12345]

I thought we do this for money? It is about money. Balance is good, but money pays for things and helps you not work - someday in the future (age 72).

Your expectations are way to high thinking you will be able to retire. Period.

The way things are going in this country plan on working till you drop. Even if things get better don't listen to some double breasted suit type financial dumb arse tell you what you need to be happy in those gold years. Their job is to collect the bread crumbs along the way to that golden parachute nonsense then rob you of it all in the end.

Retirement is subjective and if you love what you do you already are. If you don't love this why wait to you retire to do something else. If you are just in it for the money you are setting yourself up for even more dissapointment.

 

[RLAblows]

Yep... they were tough.

RLAblows.... get over here! I like free Beers!!

I'm trying! :beer:

 

[madjack]

JT, Lear,

AAI pilots have stated on this forum that the raise they will receive as a result of this acquisition is not relevant to the SLI...these same AAI pilots also state that seniority is all that matters and that no AAI CP should lose his seat...Well if they get their way you will have former AAI CPs making SWA CP money while SWA pilots (who have been at SWA longer than they have been at AAI) still making SWA FO pay...that is irritating...

 

[JT12345]

JT, Lear,

AAI pilots have stated on this forum that the raise they will receive as a result of this acquisition is not relevant to the SLI...these same AAI pilots also state that seniority is all that matters and that no AAI CP should lose his seat...Well if they get their way you will have former AAI CPs making SWA CP money while SWA pilots (who have been at SWA longer than they have been at AAI) still making SWA FO pay...that is irritating...

Well I never said it was not relevant to the SLI and that someone might not lose their seat. Who knows. What is worse than losing seniority is when it is really needed.... to stay off the street.

Ie. A USAir type senerio or outcome where the company can now whipsaw one group against the other. If USAir ever grows. Grow one side verse the other and destroy themselves in the process even more so than a competitor like SWA did in the 90s. Once the employee group as a "whole" is disgusted, even with good entitlements, it just flows down to the customer and things get even more negative. Hopefully any SLI outcome will prevent these attitudes more so than less.

 

[dicko]

JT, Lear,

AAI pilots have stated on this forum that the raise they will receive as a result of this acquisition is not relevant to the SLI...these same AAI pilots also state that seniority is all that matters and that no AAI CP should lose his seat...Well if they get their way you will have former AAI CPs making SWA CP money while SWA pilots (who have been at SWA longer than they have been at AAI) still making SWA FO pay...that is irritating...

Or, on a slightly brighter note .... Both MC's are aware of the issue. Perhaps they can come up with a solution where everybody gets cake, and eats it too.

 

[flynvixen]

You guys are so ALPA and you don't even know it. Next, maybe a giant rat? Where is the "No Love" coming from? How are you guys receiving "No Love?" Greed has become the demise of not only our industry, but this country. Don't join in. We've all seen the repercussions. There are enough deliveries planned at LUV over the next 3 1/2 years that everyone should feel the LUV. What is it that you guys want from your management that you aren't already getting?

The ALPA job killing machine has so brainwashed the AT boys that they will not be happy until the SWA pilots are stapled to the bottom of the AT list.

They have a rude awaking coming soon, it will be like a bucket of ice cold water being thrown on them. Then they will be like all the other former ALPA members..........out in the cold

 

[27 driver]

Do you consider all the benefits of being acquired by Southwest, including a pay raise to a very large pay raise, punishment?

Interesting viewpoint.

Gup

Gup, I was simply referring to a post above saying that there should be consequences. Like most I am prepared to deal with whatever the arbitrator hands out.

 

[ivauir]

Don't have to wait to be an old fart to enjoy your seniority at AAI. Hell, we had some make CA before they were 30. :laugh:

Hmmm. That is really strange. Almost bizarre, the average new hire at SWA is in their mid to late thirsts Been that way for decades.

Masked you wonder why are Southwest's demographics are so different.

 

[27 driver]

I thought we do this for money? It is about money. Balance is good, but money pays for things and helps you not work - someday in the future (age 72).

Please don't make me do this until I am 72. I love my job and all but that's pushing it.

 

[Lear70]

JT, Lear,

AAI pilots have stated on this forum that the raise they will receive as a result of this acquisition is not relevant to the SLI...these same AAI pilots also state that seniority is all that matters and that no AAI CP should lose his seat...Well if they get their way you will have former AAI CPs making SWA CP money while SWA pilots (who have been at SWA longer than they have been at AAI) still making SWA FO pay...that is irritating...

I can't say that I don't blame you and other SWA pilots for feeling that way. I certainly don't have all the answers, but taking it out on each other isn't going to help...

 

[Ty Webb]

Hmmm. That is really strange. Almost bizarre, the average new hire at SWA is in their mid to late thirsts Been that way for decades.

Masked you wonder why are Southwest's demographics are so different.

My newhire class ranged from 58-26. Most of us were in our mid-thirties, too. Plenty of legacy furloughees, milspec, international freight, and and RJ Captains.

They stopped counting the applications at 5,000 and just measured it in feet of thickness after that.

I know if reinforces your belief system to tell yourself otherwise, but we had our pick of candidates, too.

 

[miles otoole]

My newhire class ranged from 58-26. Most of us were in our mid-thirties, too. Plenty of legacy furloughees, milspec, international freight, and and RJ Captains.

According to people doing the interviews, they stopped counting the applications at 5,000 and just measured it in feet of thickness after that. We had our pick of candidates, too.

Yep-I have a couple of buds who were hired at wn and their average new hire class was early 30s with many in their 20s and many retired kernals.

 

[ivauir]

My newhire class ranged from 58-26. Most of us were in our mid-thirties, too. Plenty of legacy furloughees, milspec, international freight, and and RJ Captains.

They stopped counting the applications at 5,000 and just measured it in feet of thickness after that.

I know if reinforces your belief system to tell yourself otherwise, but we had our pick of candidates, too.

That doesn't explain why our demographics so different. In fact it makes it even more confusing ...

Do you have a theory?

 

[ASADFW7]

It is not too complicated Airtran is a super ASA. It always has been.

 

[Ty Webb]

That doesn't explain why our demographics so different. In fact it makes it even more confusing ...

Do you have a theory?

What demographics? Why don't you just spit out what you want to say. Let's hear it. Go Charlie Sheen on us. Tell us about your supposed superiority. Just go heavy on the blood, hookers and coke . . . . keep it interesting.

 

[GuppyWN]

Not trying to get between you two kiddos but I THINK what he's saying is that the Airtran pilot group is, on average, 10 YEARS younger than WN. That will/should/could factor into the whole career expectation thingy.

Gup

 

[Ty Webb]

Not trying to get between you two kiddos but I THINK what he's saying is that the Airtran pilot group is, on average, 10 YEARS younger than WN. That will/should/could factor into the whole career expectation thingy.

Gup

Ahhh. Thanks for translating.

I haven't seen the numbers on that. If it's a valid concern, I'm sure the MC/NC will take it into consideration.