FAA Rest Rules: Impact on COMMUTING (doc pgs 89-92, 25)

[bluefin]

care to rationalize why you should be paid more than someone who lives in domicile to show up to work ready for work?

I am tired of baby sitting the cross country commuters who are "tired" when we start and usually say something like "yeah man, I just came in from a 5 hour commute, I'm beat, watch me would ya?" WTFO.

Cause I keep getting F#$%^#& furloughed and I have no F%$#^&*$ idea where I am gonna get based! Yes i would love to live in base but this sh&^ keeps me from doing so. If you are going to subject me to it then pay for my move or pay me for the extra time! and dont give me that SH^% about "Finding another career".

 

[dalav8tor]

Does anyone think that all non commuting pilots are resting before flying a redeye? Plenty of them are out running errands doing c************************* or playing sports.

 

[nwaf16dude]

It is impossible to effectively regulate commuting. Anything that says otherwise is political pandering. This too shall pass.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

It is impossible to effectively regulate commuting. Anything that says otherwise is political pandering. This too shall pass.

Very likely true...the really stupid part is that the general public is probably cheering this on, until flights at outstations are delayed the following days...

Are they even still doing the 3 hr tarmac delay fines or was that just a big show for a month too? More of the same.

 

[Dude]

The only thing our respective companies care about are butts in the seat for push. They aren't going to invest in the resources to monitor where you are and how long you've been there.

 

[scoreboardII]

You all need to read whats said and not shoot the messenger.

I never said move to base, I just said show up ready for work and don't expect a company to pay you more to do it, why is that so hard?

Sure you can get displaced, the company should then pay, SWA pays. Yours doesn't? So sorry, thats not my problem, I moved 15 times in the last 25 years, my choice, no one else's.

Don' sit there and cry that you need to commute, how it's somehow your right to commute, and damn everyone else in the process.

Lots of folks move every day to follow a job, get over it.

Don't want to move if thats your only option? Your local McDonald's is always hiring.

It is impossible to effectively regulate commuting.

They don't have to, they'll put it on your back, then when you ding a wing, they lookback and see you commuted in and exceeded the rules, then they'll pull your rating, simple... mark my words. But then McDonalds may not be hiring...

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

care to rationalize why you should be paid more than someone who lives in domicile to show up to work ready for work?

I am tired of baby sitting the cross country commuters who are "tired" when we start and usually say something like "yeah man, I just came in from a 5 hour commute, I'm beat, watch me would ya?" WTFO.

You know what? You haven't the first idea what my deal is.....I may have a wife in a MUCH better job than this, I may have a child in a good school, I may be close to my parents and have to take care of them, rather than put them in a home.....either way, none of your arrogant business......

Airlines base people for literally MONTHS and then move them......but a hero like you who moves to follow the changes either has nothing going on worthwhile in his life or chooses to just be a jackhole and voice his opinion......If you don't feel like "babysitting", then see your Chief Pilot and pull yourself off the trip......

You must be a DEEEEE-light to fly with.....oh and by the way....I'm a commuter!! (No $hit!, right?)

 

[Lear70]

Don' sit there and cry that you need to commute, how it's somehow your right to commute, and damn everyone else in the process.

Was agreeing with you until you produced this gem...

Yes, it *IS* my FU**ING right to commute, thankyouverymuch. This industry has ALWAYS worked that way. It's the conditions under which I accepted the job. The employer doesn't have the right to change those conditions unless they are changed under my collective bargaining agreement. The end. Period. Deal with it.

I understand you don't commute. Most of us do, that's a FACT. If they somehow take away the ability to commute to work, the system would implode. Literally.

If you make pilots waste an extra day every trip, 4 days lost or so a month, pilots WILL find a way to get it back, whether it's calling in sick, or what have you. Delays and cancellations will go through the roof, as will staffing requirements... I think the ATA is intelligent enough not to want to see that make its way into law.

Don't screw with a pilot's pay or days off. You can kill a lot of other quality of life items and they'll just suck it up. Mess with their pay or days off, and you have one pi$$ed off pilot. YMMV

 

[T3700]

How do we know that those in that live in domicile are adequately rested before they show up for a flight? Maybe they should be required to sign in to a hotel near the airport to ensure that they are not distracted by things like mowing the lawn or washing the car.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lumberg, Lear, et al, you are in for a serious eye opening experience when these rules come to pass.

You have every right to commute.

Entitled to commute and violate the new rest rules, no. Good luck getting the company to pay for that by the way.

Again, I'm just the messenger, not the guy making the rule.

See you next time!

 

[ron burgundy]

care to rationalize why you should be paid more than someone who lives in domicile to show up to work ready for work?

I am tired of baby sitting the cross country commuters who are "tired" when we start and usually say something like "yeah man, I just came in from a 5 hour commute, I'm beat, watch me would ya?" WTFO.

No. I would care to elaborate on why they call you Sir Dick(head), but I think you just did that for me.

 

[PCL_128]

Voice of Reason, did you actually read the NPRM? Not the discussion for the first 100 or so pages, but the actual NPRM at the end? It doesn't impose any rules whatsoever on commuting, other than to include fatigue training in recurrent ground school, to include a discussion on responsible commuting. That's it. Nothing to see here.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Lumberg, Lear, et al, you are in for a serious eye opening experience when these rules come to pass.

You have every right to commute.

Entitled to commute and violate the new rest rules, no. Good luck getting the company to pay for that by the way.

Again, I'm just the messenger, not the guy making the rule.

See you next time!

Easy for you to sit on that horse and preach, huh? What happens when something unforseen forces you to be based at JFK or Mexico City or whatever other crazy base pops up in the next 25 years at SWA? You gonna be singing a different tune then? Or are you gonna quit?

 

[Hpilot]

You all need to read whats said and not shoot the messenger.

I never said move to base, I just said show up ready for work and don't expect a company to pay you more to do it, why is that so hard?

Sure you can get displaced, the company should then pay, SWA pays. Yours doesn't? So sorry, thats not my problem, I moved 15 times in the last 25 years, my choice, no one else's.

Don' sit there and cry that you need to commute, how it's somehow your right to commute, and damn everyone else in the process.

Lots of folks move every day to follow a job, get over it.

Don't want to move if thats your only option? Your local McDonald's is always hiring.
They don't have to, they'll put it on your back, then when you ding a wing, they lookback and see you commuted in and exceeded the rules, then they'll pull your rating, simple... mark my words. But then McDonalds may not be hiring...

Wow, you drug your family around 15 times? No thanks I think I prefer having a happy well adjusted family. If you did that with kids and a wife you're an @ss.

 

[Lear70]

Lumberg, Lear, et al, you are in for a serious eye opening experience when these rules come to pass.

You have every right to commute.

Entitled to commute and violate the new rest rules, no. Good luck getting the company to pay for that by the way.

Again, I'm just the messenger, not the guy making the rule.

See you next time!

Read what PCL said again and absorb it (he beat me to it).

They are NOT putting rules in place against commuting or requiring it to be added to your total duty for the day... yet...

The wording from the NPRM (if you bother to read the whole thing) says the FAA was leaning that way, then the committees studying the issue along with BOTH ALPA AND THE ATA said that it wasn't feasible. Too many people commuting, too difficult to track the system, and they decided they would start with training each pilot on these new fatigue rules in a ground school modules, the dangers of fatigue, they would "SUGGEST" that a pilot "CONSIDER" their time commuting similar to time spent in van transportation by the company to/from a hotel, i.e. it is now a part of your total duty day, and continue to leave it to the pilot to act responsibly when commuting.

In the future, if another person does an all-night red-eye commute then starts a 12-14 hour duty day and buries one in at the end of the day talking about being tired on the CVR... well... for all intents and purposes, this is "fair warning" from the FAA that failure of pilots to commute responsibly will "POSSIBLY" result in actual regulations on commuting.

Believe me, airline management doesn't want commuting rules in place, either. It would result in the short-term meltdown of operational integrity, followed by a LOT of additional costs in training and staffing as they add more employees, shorten up the trips, which as a result kills the trip average credit, requiring people to work more trips, less days off at home, and management's life would get just as difficult as ours would.

No one wants that, hence why THERE ARE NO RULES ABOUT COMMUTING IN THIS NPRM.

I suggest you read it in its entirety before you post about the issue again, just so you can post intelligently on the subject. Your call, of course (that's not a moderator position, this is just my personal take on the issue - 121.471 has always been near and dear to my heart).