FAA Rest Rules: Impact on COMMUTING (doc pgs 89-92, 25)

[Lear70]

I think you've gone of the deep end, Scoreboard. There's plenty of people here who commute and have done it responsibly for 20+ years.

I submit to you there is absolutely ZERO difference between my 30 minute drive to the airport, getting there 30 minutes before my flight, and commuting a 45 minute flight into domicile than the person who lives 45 minutes away and gets stuck in a 2 hour traffic jam.

2 hours prior to a normal duty day isn't irresponsible commuting. Get over yourself and your "doomsday" message. That duck ain't huntin', and everyone here knows it.

There's a big difference between "irresponsible commuting" and the normal commuter who leaves themselves 2 commute opportunities before a normal duty day. If you can't see that, then I'm done debating you, as you obviously have NO intention of seeing common sense that has applied to 99.9% of commuting pilots for DECADES.

You don't want to commute? Fine. But don't put some perverted viewpoint of commuting on everyone else...

 

[LearLove]

I feel for you, but consider what military families do every 18 months to three years. truck drivers, train engineers, cruise line employee's, everybody moves.

By the way, this is known as "the travel industry" for a reason.

I've moved twice as many times in 11 years of 121 flying as my parents did in 8 years of active duty Air Force (and that includes Pilot training bases and aircraft specific schools). I know several truck drivers and one train engineer none of them have had to relocate ever for their jobs.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lear, I mostly agree with you. I also think you think I agree with the ruling, I don't.

I think this will result in pilots NOT calling in fatigued because there will be investigations as to why your tired.

My message isn't doomsday as much as what this allows the Gov to get away with; just another way to blame the pilot.

Folks need to know their jobs are on the line if they can be seen to have been "fatigued" or set themselves up to fly fatigued. My point is don't show up to work tired, some then attack me claiming I'm an anti-Christ for demanding they move to base, I'm claiming neither point. But it is interesting how when these rules are shown to impact your life, the reaction is personal attacks. Thou doth protest to much?

This will be seen just like being drunk. If thats considered doomsday, well, get ready for the asteroid. I have nothing to worry about in either event.

 

[sinkrate]

I'm not taking sides, I have nothing against commuters and have lived both sides of every argument presented in this thread. But one blurb I think most are over looking is on page 91. ​

The FAA does believe that it is unreasonable to assume that an individual is
resting while commuting. Accordingly, time spent commuting, either locally or longdistance, is not considered rest, and a certificate holder will need to consider the commuting times required by individual flightcrew members to ensure they can reach their home base while still receiving the required opportunity for rest. This approach is consistent with that taken for transportation to and from a sleep facility other than home discussed earlier in this document.​

If I am reading this right, and I do have some experience at it, this gives a Federal court language to rule that your commute time must be built into your trip. Time spent commuting is not considered rest. The way these issues will get settled is through the Federal Court system, the same process that made reserve is not rest. If the FAA decides to take enforcement action against a carrier for not doing this the same process that produced the Whitlow ruling will prevail. ​

Does anyone know how the FAA intends to ensure compliance with this passage?​

It appears the FAA is talking out of both sides of their mouth on this issue. They can't regulate it so they are going to leave it up to the individual carriers to do it. Classic FAA.​

 

[michael707767]

Here is why you all hate it......Because truth be told commuting is UNSAFE! Move to you base if you can afford it. If you can't afford, strike your company till they pay you properly.

Suppose a trip signs in about 1430, followed by a 9 hour duty day. The captain was up at 630 to get the kids off to school. Did some yard work and ran errands the rest of the day, taking care of the endless sh*t that piled up from his last trip. Then a quick shower and a rushed drive to the airport to make sign in.

The F/O commuted in from MCI. He got on a flight about 9 in the morning and took an hour nap on the way to work.

Now you tell me, who is more rested and safe to start that trip? How is commuter unsafe compared to a pilot who lives in base?

You can't say a pilot who commutes is unsafe anymore than you can say a pilot who lives in base is safe.

 

[nwaredtail]

If I am reading this right, and I do have some experience at it, this gives a Federal court language to rule that your commute time must be built into your trip. Time spent commuting is not considered rest. The way these issues will get settled is through the Federal Court system, the same process that made reserve is not rest. If the FAA decides to take enforcement action against a carrier for not doing this the same process that produced the Whitlow ruling will prevail. ​

If it's built into the trip, guess what, the carrier will have to pay duty rig time! Guess what , they will never do that so it becomes a moot point.

 

[Dizel8]

Better yet. You have a seven AM show and being a responsible commuter you plan on getting into base before 9pm, however, ATC delays, mechanical etc., etc., puts you there at midnight.

What now?

 

[wmuflyguy]

The FAA does believe that it is unreasonable to assume that an individual is
resting while commuting. Accordingly, time spent commuting, either locally or longdistance,
is not considered rest,...

Yet transportation local in nature is considered part of the rest period on an overnight...

 

[PCL_128]

Sinkrate, that portion of the document is not part of the proposed rule. It's just a discussion of the thoughts that went into the development of the NPRM. It has no affect on the law or regulations. The only part that will become regulation is the actual proposed language at the end of the document.

 

[Lear70]

Yet transportation local in nature is considered part of the rest period on an overnight...

No it's not.

In the NPRM, commuting LOCAL in nature is NOT considered part of rest.

Rest will begin once you are BEHIND the door at the hotel, and will END when you report in the lobby to head to the airport.

With a minimum rest period of 9 hours (reduceable only if YOU agree to reduce it) behind the door, this makes most overnights much closer to 10 hours compared to how we do it now.

Lots of stuff in there might work in our favor... be interesting to see how it shakes down in the end.