Seniority dispute ends at US Airways

[FDJ2]

Oh, our commitment should be quite obvious by now. It has cost you over 2M$ and caused Judge Wake to eat crow. No problems looking in the mirror or getting a good night sleep. ta-ta.:beer:

I'm not part of the lawsuit, just someone with no dog in this fight disgusted by the unprincipled actions of the mob at USAPA.

 

[Turtle21]

I'm not part of the lawsuit, just someone with no dog in this fight disgusted by the unprincipled actions of the mob at USAPA.

You seem to be doing a lot of hating for someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight. You'll shorten your life if you burden yourself with everyone else's business that doesn't concern you. Me thinks you confused or hiding your interests.

As far as "unprincipled", that is exactly how we felt when ALPA denounced the Nic award and failed to abide by their own CB&L policies. Funny thing is, the "unprincipled mob" got to vote on ALPA's "principles". When 500 pilots walked up to the door at Herndon they thought we were a mob then too.

Live long and prosper, bro.

 

[becket]

Becket...DRFII with only a pen stroke? That's going to be one helluva pen stroke. How much does you lawyer charge for a "pen stroke?" Are you super, super sure of what you're writing here, like the Ocity?

Thanks for the meaningless, pointless reply. You however, failed to answer the basic question. Again, how does the 9th's ruling that the case simply wasn't ripe, help you. EVER? How is that a victory? What, exactly do you think you've "won"? DFRII is not a Helluva pen stroke. It's a simple fact. The gun is locked and loaded. It's up to USAPA to determine when the trigger gets pulled.

Because you seem to have an ability to read something that isn't present in the 9ths ruling, perhaps you could indulge us with exactly what part you're referring to when you imply that USAPA is free to run the DOH sham.

Waiting.

 

[Turtle21]

Thanks for the meaningless, pointless reply. You however, failed to answer the basic question. Again, how does the 9th's ruling that the case simply wasn't ripe, help you. EVER? How is that a victory? What, exactly do you think you've "won"? DFRII is not a Helluva pen stroke. It's a simple fact. The gun is locked and loaded. It's up to USAPA to determine when the trigger gets pulled.

Because you seem to have an ability to read something that isn't present in the 9ths ruling, perhaps you could indulge us with exactly what part you're referring to when you imply that USAPA is free to run the DOH sham.

Waiting.

No one is looking at a DOH sham. You may as well go snipe hunting.

The relevant points from the 9th that demonstrate the Nic is not the end all be all have been pointed to many times. Willful blindness can't be cured.imp:

 

[becket]

No one is looking at a DOH sham. You may as well go snipe hunting.

The relevant points from the 9th that demonstrate the Nic is not the end all be all have been pointed to many times. Willful blindness can't be cured.imp:

The only thing the 9th indicated was that maybe USAPA will come up with something that won't get them sued. Well the company clarified USAPAs demands for us with their new law suit. USAPA will not let go of DOH. Big surprise. So I guess you've been misinformed. USAPA IS looking at a DOH sham. That was easily proven illegal once. It'll happen again. DFR2.0 is in the bag.

That is if it's even an issue. If the company is going to be held liable if they deviate from the Nic. Game over. Checkmate. Nic. or LOA93 forever. USAPA will stall, continue to evade their legal obligations to their constituents, and blame the boogey man. That will last until USAPA is replaced, (most likely scenario) or sane people are allowed into USAPA management, (not likely).

 

[FNG320]

Thanks for the meaningless, pointless reply. You however, failed to answer the basic question. Again, how does the 9th's ruling that the case simply wasn't ripe, help you. EVER? How is that a victory? What, exactly do you think you've "won"? DFRII is not a Helluva pen stroke. It's a simple fact. The gun is locked and loaded. It's up to USAPA to determine when the trigger gets pulled.

Because you seem to have an ability to read something that isn't present in the 9ths ruling, perhaps you could indulge us with exactly what part you're referring to when you imply that USAPA is free to run the DOH sham.

Waiting.

USAPA is free to negotiate any SLI they desire with USAir. However, if it does not include/follow the NIC the case will be "ripe" and USAPA will be back to court again, and USAPA will lose again. This time there will be no apeal to the 9th (becuase it was ripe). In addition USAir as well as USAPA may both become responsible for damages. That is why USAir is asking the courts to determine there liablity should they sign a CBA with USAPA that does not follow the NIC award.

Can USAPA do it? Yes

Will they do it? Only if they are stupid.

What will hapen if they do? They will lose in court and the NIC award will be implemented by the courts.

The final results will be 5-10+ years of below par wages, benefits, retirement and 50% of those affected on the east side will be retired or moved on to other jobs. By then you can have a new election and kick out USAPA (which you might be able to do now based or their performance so far).

Just my opinion......

FNG

 

[Turtle21]

USAPA is free to negotiate any SLI they desire with USAir. However, if it does not include/follow the NIC the case will be "ripe" and USAPA will be back to court again, and USAPA will lose again. This time there will be no apeal to the 9th (becuase it was ripe). In addition USAir as well as USAPA may both become responsible for damages. That is why USAir is asking the courts to determine there liablity should they sign a CBA with USAPA that does not follow the NIC award.

Can USAPA do it? Yes

Will they do it? Only if they are stupid.

What will hapen if they do? They will lose in court and the NIC award will be implemented by the courts.

The final results will be 5-10+ years of below par wages, benefits, retirement and 50% of those affected on the east side will be retired or moved on to other jobs. By then you can have a new election and kick out USAPA (which you might be able to do now based or their performance so far).

Just my opinion......

FNG

The 9th made it clear that the question of legitimacy of "Nic or something else" is not within the jurisdiction of the court until a contract is ratified, after the completion of the internal union process, at which time the standard of the Supreme Court, as cited by the 9th, will apply.

Anyone who thinks they have something in the bag ought to cash in their divining powers at Las Vegas.

 

[Bringupthebird]

DFR II will only be aborted if the contract has overwhelming benefits to the point that the Addington plaintiffs feel they would be better off withthe contract than rolling the dice in court.

THE PROBLEM is that USAPA will be unable to produce those overwhelming west benefits due to their lack of negotiating capital (strike is a non-starter) and their fallback position is a 50%+1 cramdown which of course will trigger an immediate DFR II.

ALL US Pilots should demand more from their union than a lousy 50%+1, and that will only come about when the union actively pursues unity with the west and that will take either a new union or, at the least, new leadership.

 

[Turtle21]

DFR II will only be aborted if the contract has overwhelming benefits to the point that the Addington plaintiffs feel they would be better off withthe contract than rolling the dice in court.

THE PROBLEM is that USAPA will be unable to produce those overwhelming west benefits due to their lack of negotiating capital (strike is a non-starter) and their fallback position is a 50%+1 cramdown which of course will trigger an immediate DFR II.

ALL US Pilots should demand more from their union than a lousy 50%+1, and that will only come about when the union actively pursues unity with the west and that will take either a new union or, at the least, new leadership.

Yes, overwhelming west benefits have always been a priority and will always continue to be.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Please send out the strike ballot. The world is ready for a little humor.

 

[Cowboy75]

Please send out the strike ballot. The world is ready for a little humor.

Strike? That's funny. Thanks for the morning laugh!

 

[johnnyb]

The case was dismissed last week and not a peep out of AOL. Or has it been 'members only" ?

 

[becket]

The case was dismissed last week and not a peep out of AOL. Or has it been 'members only" ?

What's to talk about? It's old news. The 9th came out almost 2 months ago. I love how hard USAPA is working to convince everybody that this is "over".

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Cowboy75]

The case was dismissed last week and not a peep out of AOL. Or has it been 'members only" ?

Too busy counting the donations. USAPAWATCH has something to say:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUIDPeHsnMg&feature=player_embedded

 

[Cowboy75]

Reprint from USAPAWATCH:

Make no mistake, this is a monumental victory for all pilots, not just the East.” -CLT Domicile Update

The sewage spewing from the fingertips of our CLT Domicile Representatives is flowing with reckless abandon. They blame everyone but themselves for our predicament. They epitomize the victim mentality with their incoherent rants aimed at imagined foes determined to ruin their lives. The following editorial was written by a CLT based staff member of TheEye. We believe it nicely summarizes our current situation.


“Since the 9th ruled a few short weeks ago, we’ve been inundated with proclamations of victory and promises of better days to come from our USAPA leadership. Even in light of the Company’s recent court filing, they still believe that a contract with a date of hire type list is just around the corner. It hasn’t dawned on them that they are quickly losing all but their most diehard supporters. It seems the majority of us have had enough with Mr. Cleary and his dictatorial reign over the US Airways pilots. The latest update from the CLT representatives is indicative of just how far out of touch they’ve become.

On a recent transcon with a Delta jumpseater, the conversation inevitably turned towards the merger. The first officer hitching a ride casually broached the subject. To my surprise my first officer and I held nothing back. Surprising to the Delta guy was our shared embarrassment over our once strong support for USAPA. Beyond the questionable ethics of the USAPA experiment, we both acknowledged the toll working under LOA 93 has had on our lives. It was meant to be a transitional agreement to get US Airways out of bankruptcy, not a ten year contract.

On our trip home the following day, we spent a few hours in quiet reflection as we guided our airliner back to Charlotte. We both knew what was on our minds but there was nothing further to say. As we parted with the traditional end of trip handshake, my partner said he was taking a small step to get involved and would sign the Crimi recall petition and advocate for his removal. Without a doubt, he had reached his tipping point.

The Company’s filing places their feet firmly in the fire and most of us believe that the end game has arrived. We cannot foresee a scenario that will absolve the Company of liability. It appears Mr. Seham’s empty promises will finally be exposed. It takes two to tango and the Company isn’t willing to join USAPA on the dance floor. As I’ve been telling my first officers and friends all along, the Nicolau Award truly is binding. We agreed to the process and we need to honor our agreement. For me it’s a matter of principle.”

-CLT Captain and former USAPA

 

[Cowboy75]

The company has something to say. Excerpt from documents filed 8/16/10:​

US Airways Faces Substantial Harm, Regardless Of What
Actions It Takes, Absent A Prompt Declaratory Judgment.​

USAPA begins its discussion of harm to US Airways by noting that US Airways has “repeatedly professed its ‘neutral’ stance with respect to the pilot seniority issue.”(Motion 10:8-10.) That misses the point. USAPA is correct that, as alleged in theComplaint, US Airways is neutral as to

which seniority list is included in a single collective bargaining agreement. (Compl. ¶ 1.) US Airways is not neutral, however, as to when the seniority issue is resolved: the issue should be resolved now. A delay in resolving the issues presented by this lawsuit will severely damage US Airways, which is why US Airways filed this action for a declaratory judgment. In accordance with its obligations under Section 6 of the RLA, US Airways is currently engaged in ongoing negotiations for a collective bargaining agreement with USAPA. US Airways has a statutory duty to respond to USAPA’s seniority integration proposals during the course of those negotiations. The negotiations are being mediated by the National Mediation Board, which has the authority to release the parties from negotiations if and when it determines that its efforts are unsuccessful — which could occur if US Airways refuses to agree to USAPA’s seniority integration proposals. Following such a release, the union could engage in a work stoppage after a statutory cooling-off period. US Airways brought this action seeking a declaratory judgment before it responds to USAPA’s seniority integration proposals — as it is entitled to do under the Declaratory

Judgment Act, 28 U.S.C. §§ 2201 & 2202. bsent a prompt declaratory judgment, US Airways faces protracted negotiations regarding a single CBA without guidance as to its rights and obligations, which willrequire US Airways to make a Hobson’s choice. If US Airways rejects USAPA’s seniority proposals, USAPA could engage in a work stoppage that could expose “US
Airways to hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue and customer goodwill.”(Compl. ¶ 4.) If US Airways accepts USAPA’s seniority proposals, the West Pilots have threatened to bring litigation against US Airways that could invalidate a CBA that took years to negotiate and expose “US Airways to potentially tens of millions of dollars in litigation costs and monetary damages" ​

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[xanderman]

If the east is so confident with their DOH position then why the motion to stay? I'd think they want this resolved asap also. Maybe Seham knows something he's not telling you...

 

[get2flyin]

If the east is so confident with their DOH position then why the motion to stay? I'd think they want this resolved asap also. Maybe Seham knows something he's not telling you...

Shhhhh. An honest lawyer would NEVER do that......

 

[Bringupthebird]

The union could engage in a work stoppage? For what about 45 minutes?! Sorry, the company knows that there is insufficient unity to pull off a strike, but it HAS seen a jury come back with a verdict in favor of the west pilots.

Nic - the sure thing!

 

[B-atch]

The union could engage in a work stoppage? For what about 45 minutes?! Sorry, the company knows that there is insufficient unity to pull off a strike, but it HAS seen a jury come back with a verdict in favor of the west pilots.

Nic - the sure thing!

Are you pre-emptively stating that the WEST would NOT honor a strike on the US Airways property? What exactly are the WEST pilots willing to do???? All ears/eyes are on YOU!!