Republic Airways posts first quarter loss

[likeitis]

Perhaps you forgot your pilot group was too stingy to part with a measly .7-1.% to pay for your furloughed guys COBRA.From FlyDaPlane,2002:

"Pilots voted down by almost a 2 to 1 margin a projected .7 to 1.0% assesment to give a health care stipend ($250) bucks a month for their fuloughed pilots. Thanks a lot guys! (by the way my cobra costs $780.00 a month)
We'll remember this when we're working on the new contract and you start crying about retirement. In the "brotherhood" of the union, you all just showed your true colors. What comes around goes around.

Has any other carrier's pilots voted down a program instituted by their own union to help their own furloughed pilots?

Selfish, selfish, selfish! Enjoy that .7 % "

Defend THAT,as I know you will.Looks like your "brotherhood" extends only to your own wallet.Oh,since we get a lot of guff for a contract ratified in 2003,let's look at those mighty mainline payscales,hmm:

Monthly
FO
AT717 ATA737 FRT
2963 3000 3355 1
4012 5072 4137 2
4346 5647 4717 3
4751 6234 4982 4

CA
8607 10506 8876 5
8948 10638 9074 6
9277 10758 9248 7
10838 11620 10150 max

Max 737-800 at AirTran is 12247.

Wow,so a third year F/O on a Tranny 717 made a whopping $6 an hour more than a maxed-out RAH F/O (based on a 100 hour month).Fifth year and not even breaking $5,000 a month ?

What does you group not having the balls to recall crooks have to do with the selfish upper seniority guys at YX voting down furlough support? I didn't vote as I was one of those furloughed. Like comparing apples to dingle-berries.


I have no clue what new math you are using but it stinks. FIRST year FO pay at FL is $6/hour more than top FO pay at repugnant. Third year is 65% above top repugnant pay. Fifth year at min is over $5000/month but I'm sure there are very few getting 70 hours. Probably looking at closer to $6000. Max 737-800 pay at Airtran is $173/hour. Again your numbers work for min pay but if you are on the top of the payscale there is virtually no chance you are working min pay by choice.

You forget a couple of things. FL contract is poor at best but it's light years above yours. Of that $6000/month a 5 year FO is being paid, $630 more is going into their retirement. The highest paid pilot at repugnant doesn't get that much.

 

[Bluestreak]

"Wow,so a third year F/O on a Tranny 717 made a whopping $6 an hour more than a maxed-out RAH F/O (based on a 100 hour month).Fifth year and not even breaking $5,000 a month ?"

It's hard for me to follow what your post is saying (as you've pointed out I'm not too bright...) but according to APC a 3rd year Tranny FO makes $61/hr. If my 2nd grade teacher was correct, that is substantially greater than $43/hr (which is your alleged $6 more than a topped out RAH F/O). Please double-check that though so I can correct Mrs. Jones if it turns out she was wrong...

Yes,you are challenged-those are 2003 rates,the same year RAH's contract was signed.Those aren't exactly industry leading for mighty MAINLINE pilots flying mighty MAINLINE jets,now is it ?

 

[BORG]

Yes,you are challenged-those are 2003 rates,the same year RAH's contract was signed.Those aren't exactly industry leading for mighty MAINLINE pilots flying mighty MAINLINE jets,now is it ?

Dude, you crack me up. Their rates are alot higher than your mainline rates flying my mainline jets... And as I recall Airtran just sent in a 98% strike authorization vote. Does your group have the balls to stand up and do what is right like that? So far all signs point to the fact that you're a bunch of entitlement minded selfish children...

 

[BORG]

By the way - you say I'm challenged but I'm pretty sure my math was right on. I'm not sure how the year the contracts were signed is relevant, they still blow your payrates away...

 

[likeitis]

Yes,you are challenged-those are 2003 rates,the same year RAH's contract was signed.Those aren't exactly industry leading for mighty MAINLINE pilots flying mighty MAINLINE jets,now is it ?

So then I guess you are just pointing out bad your contract is. Seems the FL contract, which I already pointed out is awful, has done a much better job of keeping up with inflation than your sorry POS. The wise pilots at FL have also seemed to be much better at being proactively planning for a multitude of potential avenues that their management could use. You guys couldn't plan for a airplane that management told they were interested in and actually was sitting on the ramp. So now you have FO's flying around aircraft for half of what they should be making because your brainiac negotiating committee couldn't see that 2 year upgrades won't last forever. On top of that they couldn't foresee a problem with negotiating rates based on number of seats? How about cancellation pay? That was a stroke of genius.

 

[Flying Illini]

Does your group have the balls to stand up and do what is right like that? So far all signs point to the fact that you're a bunch of entitlement minded selfish children...

I'm a selfish child? You don't even know me. Not very "adult" of you. It's disheartening that you think that "all signs" are your limited discussions with a very small group of RAH pilots (or those who claim to be) on the flightinfo message board. Just sayin.'


I don't know that we would return a 98% strike vote but I firmly believe that we would break 90%. I'll be the first in line to cast my vote. I'd do it right now if I could. In the mean time I keep working, stay away from any "branded" flying (I have a MCI overnight in June on the Airways side, be nice on the hotel van), and keep adding money to my strike fund. I plan on being able to walk without a second thought for at least 8 months, should it be necessary.

Honestly, I'd like to see as many YX pilots as possible come over. I have numerous reasons but the biggest reason being that I would love to walk a picket line with you guys. You know why? Because that would mean that we have stopped fighting amongst ourselves and are now united in our fight against the real enemy.

 

[BORG]

I'm a selfish child? You don't even know me. Not very "adult" of you. It's disheartening that you think that "all signs" are your limited discussions with a very small group of RAH pilots (or those who claim to be) on the flightinfo message board. Just sayin.'


I don't know that we would return a 98% strike vote but I firmly believe that we would break 90%. I'll be the first in line to cast my vote. I'd do it right now if I could. In the mean time I keep working, stay away from any "branded" flying (I have a MCI overnight in June on the Airways side, be nice on the hotel van), and keep adding money to my strike fund. I plan on being able to walk without a second thought for at least 8 months, should it be necessary.

Honestly, I'd like to see as many YX pilots as possible come over. I have numerous reasons but the biggest reason being that I would love to walk a picket line with you guys. You know why? Because that would mean that we have stopped fighting amongst ourselves and are now united in our fight against the real enemy.

Interestingly, in testimony before the NTSB last week, an Air Wisconsin Captain, Line Check Airman and FAA Designated Observer said that regional pilots (particularly F/O's) are of an entitlement mentality and it is a potential threat to professionalism and safety.

I went to college with a number of guys that are currently at Republic (and the sister companies) and all I hear out of them is bitching. I have literally NEVER heard a single one of them say a positive word about their jobs. They bitch about pay, schedules, work rules, hotels, commuting, labor/management relations, etc., etc.

I don't remember ever hearing that kind of complaining when I was at Midwest and never felt that way myself, despite the fact that the whole time I was there I was commuting to reserve and living in a crash pad. It's called paying your dues and we've all done it. It's time for the entitlement-minded crybabies to grow up...

 

[Flying Illini]

Interestingly, in testimony before the NTSB last week, an Air Wisconsin Captain, Line Check Airman and FAA Designated Observer said that regional pilots (particularly F/O's) are of an entitlement mentality and it is a potential threat to professionalism and safety.

I went to college with a number of guys that are currently at Republic (and the sister companies) and all I hear out of them is bitching. I have literally NEVER heard a single one of them say a positive word about their jobs. They bitch about pay, schedules, work rules, hotels, commuting, labor/management relations, etc., etc.

I don't remember ever hearing that kind of complaining when I was at Midwest and never felt that way myself, despite the fact that the whole time I was there I was commuting to reserve and living in a crash pad. It's called paying your dues and we've all done it. It's time for the entitlement-minded crybabies to grow up...

By all means, since some guy said that "regional pilots particularly F/O's are of an entitlement mentality" then it must be so.

Do you want to know why all of your friends who are at RAH complain about stuff while you "never hear complaints like that at YX?" It's because YX was an LCC. A real airline. RAH is a regional airline and the pilots are treated as such. It doesn't sound like you had the pleasure of flying for a regional. It's too bad b/c that's where 121 pilots pay their dues. Regional airlines try to provide the worst QOL out there b/c they don't want the pilots to stick around. They don't want the high payroll costs associated with pilots making it a career destination.

I'm sure RAH has some of those "entitled" pilots, I'm also sure that those pilots are at every airline and many other companies out there.

Quite frankly I find it incredibly offensive that b/c I'm an FO at a regional airline then I must have an entitlement mentality and I'm incredibly unsafe and anything but a professional.

Interestingly enough, I came to a regional airline with only slightly less TT than you had when you went to your LCC. B/C you went to an LCC and I went to a regional, does that mean that you don't have an entitlement mentality? Does that mean that you are more of a professional than I? The 40+ yr old member of the Air Force who was in my initial class...is he less professional b/c he chose to go a regional? It sounds to me like you feel that these problems only exist at regional carriers. Something you need to know is that all of those former regional pilots moved on to bigger and better airlines taking their bad attitudes with them.

Have I ever bitched about my commute? Yes. Have I complained about our payscales? Yes. Have I complained about how RAH treats me? Yes. Who hasn't complained about stuff related to their job? Even my wife has days where she just needs to vent about something. It's perfectly normal.

I enjoy flying airplanes. Do I want to fly airplanes for RAH for the rest of my career? Not a chance but I do hope that I leave a better airline for those who remain than what I found when I came here.

 

[BORG]

By all means, since some guy said that "regional pilots particularly F/O's are of an entitlement mentality" then it must be so.

Do you want to know why all of your friends who are at RAH complain about stuff while you "never hear complaints like that at YX?" It's because YX was an LCC. A real airline. RAH is a regional airline and the pilots are treated as such. It doesn't sound like you had the pleasure of flying for a regional. It's too bad b/c that's where 121 pilots pay their dues. Regional airlines try to provide the worst QOL out there b/c they don't want the pilots to stick around. They don't want the high payroll costs associated with pilots making it a career destination.

I'm sure RAH has some of those "entitled" pilots, I'm also sure that those pilots are at every airline and many other companies out there.

Quite frankly I find it incredibly offensive that b/c I'm an FO at a regional airline then I must have an entitlement mentality and I'm incredibly unsafe and anything but a professional.

Interestingly enough, I came to a regional airline with only slightly less TT than you had when you went to your LCC. B/C you went to an LCC and I went to a regional, does that mean that you don't have an entitlement mentality? Does that mean that you are more of a professional than I? The 40+ yr old member of the Air Force who was in my initial class...is he less professional b/c he chose to go a regional? It sounds to me like you feel that these problems only exist at regional carriers. Something you need to know is that all of those former regional pilots moved on to bigger and better airlines taking their bad attitudes with them.

Have I ever bitched about my commute? Yes. Have I complained about our payscales? Yes. Have I complained about how RAH treats me? Yes. Who hasn't complained about stuff related to their job? Even my wife has days where she just needs to vent about something. It's perfectly normal.

I enjoy flying airplanes. Do I want to fly airplanes for RAH for the rest of my career? Not a chance but I do hope that I leave a better airline for those who remain than what I found when I came here.

I can think of at least two reasons that you shouldn't take the entitlement comment personally: 1. I was merely referencing what was said on the record at an NTSB hearing on professionalism; and 2. It seems like the statement doesn't really apply to you.

Furthermore, I don't claim to be any more or any less professional than anyone else regardless of their (or my) position, experience or background. I fly with the same professional attitude whether I'm in a Skyhawk, Citation or Boeing. I don't believe (and didn't intend to imply) that EVERYONE at regional airlines lacks professionalism or that EVERYONE has an entitlement mentality - once again, it certainly doesn't seem to apply to you.

Finally, I know these problems don't only exist at regionals, however, I think some regional pilots better get comfortable with the fact that it could be the end of the road. As I'm sure you're aware, regionals do half of the flying in the US and as you all continue to fly larger and larger jets, mainline jobs continue to go away (400 at YX for example). It's time that regional pilots start negotiating reasonable contracts that pilots can live with long-term. It's the only way to arrest the death-spiral the industry is presently experiencing.

 

[Toobdrvr]

"I enjoy flying airplanes. Do I want to fly airplanes for RAH for the rest of my career? Not a chance but I do hope that I leave a better airline for those who remain than what I found when I came here."

Well, that's an idea. Here's another one: Some of your new coworkers have been working at places where you could hang your hat for the duration (problems on the business side notwithstanding). Looks like were all stuck here for a while, let's see if we can't make a destination airline out of this place? Works for me...

 

[Flying Illini]

Finally, I know these problems don't only exist at regionals, however, I think some regional pilots better get comfortable with the fact that it could be the end of the road. As I'm sure you're aware, regionals do half of the flying in the US and as you all continue to fly larger and larger jets, mainline jobs continue to go away (400 at YX for example). It's time that regional pilots start negotiating reasonable contracts that pilots can live with long-term. It's the only way to arrest the death-spiral the industry is presently experiencing.

That's the part that sucks. Regionals are quickly becoming the "end of the road." This career isn't anywhere close to the same career those 10yrs ahead of us got. It's too bad. Hindsight being 20/20, I wish we could stuff "scope relaxation" back into the box. Maybe then a mainline career would be a legitimate option.

Live and learn. All we can do now is make the best of the current situation. The only way to do that is to negotiate solid contracts. I think pilots at regionals are realizing that they have gone as far as they can and will start to become hardliners when it comes to contract negotiations. The other thing that regionals are realizing is that what RAH pilots didn't anticipate and therefore had no contractual protections against could happen to them. It's time to get some solid language in the contracts and either do away with regionals or make them palatable as the "career airline" they seem to be trending towards.

 

[Flying Illini]

"I enjoy flying airplanes. Do I want to fly airplanes for RAH for the rest of my career? Not a chance but I do hope that I leave a better airline for those who remain than what I found when I came here."

Well, that's an idea. Here's another one: Some of your new coworkers have been working at places where you could hang your hat for the duration (problems on the business side notwithstanding). Looks like were all stuck here for a while, let's see if we can't make a destination airline out of this place? Works for me...

My thoughts exactly. See you on the picket line.

 

[Minimaniac]

Just my opinion, but aren't unhappy pilots the ones who are more likely to seek significant changes in future contracts? Regional FO's feel entitled to the career they thought they were going to have. They then see that the career they wanted was sold out years ago by mainline unions' relaxation of scope (because they were entitled to make $330/hr), and they complain. Loudly. Yes, it gets old hearing from them all the time, but in truth we should be glad. Their sense of entitlement is what will make them fight for better. It is those who are happy with the regional status quo who are threatening our profession. A 28 year old regional FO who expects to show up to work and find a well maintained aircraft, and be paid well to fly that aircraft is far less of a threat to our profession than the 40 year old regional captain who barely even reads up on the list of MEL's before pushing back off the gate to sit on a taxiway with a plane full of pax for two hours so that he can make a few more hours of horrible pay without a single complaint.

 

[Toobdrvr]

My thoughts exactly. See you on the picket line.

If it ever comes to that, you can count me in...

In the meantime, I plan to find constructive ways to make this the best job possible. That and hoping/praying it doesn't come to a strike...

 

[dlzav8tr]

You never know when you might have to start over again. It is time to stop settling for below livable wages no matter where you are. I voted no on f9's current contract (pre concession) because first year pay was substantialy lowered. No pilot should ever make less than $50,000 no matter what seat and equipment they are in.

 

[instructordude]

Any update on the SLI over at Republic?

 

[Cardinal]

Your avatar has devoted multiple years of his life to serve our pilot group, while your only meaningful accomplishment in life is to troll Flightinfo. Hope you get sarcoptic mange.

 

[CitationLover]

Any update on the SLI over at Republic?

More delays requested by FAPA and the IBT. Now late fall is the latest estimate.

 

[Cardinal]

More delays requested by FAPA and the IBT. Now late fall is the latest estimate.

Now you're just lying. No delays were 'requested,' nor are there any delays at all, just the process moving along. Rebuttals are scheduled (at the pleasure of the arbitrator) for August 9-11. Then we wait on an award.

So is your leadership actually feeding you this bull, are you not paying attention, or are you fabricating this stuff to suit your agenda?

 

[CitationLover]

Now you're just lying. No delays were 'requested,' nor are there any delays at all, just the process moving along. Rebuttals are scheduled (at the pleasure of the arbitrator) for August 9-11. Then we wait on an award.

So is your leadership actually feeding you this bull, are you not paying attention, or are you fabricating this stuff to suit your agenda?

From our last update....

....Although we tried to get the rebuttals completed as quickly as possible by suggesting using video depositions and similar means, the IBT and FAPA attorneys insisted on doing them in a face-to-face hearing and the earliest that hearing can be scheduled is August 9, 10, and 11. This means a timeline that produces an award in October or early November and it gets even uglier from there because, quite frankly, we have no idea what the award will provide in terms of us returning to work or how long it will take to implement any return provisions the award might contain....

So why no video deposition? Why face to face? The delay was requested by the IBT/FAPA. It's ok, it's only 400 "brothers" on the street for cheaper labor.

 

[Cardinal]

At best skipping the travel day using the video would save one day, compressing 4 days into 3, so you assume that one day difference was the tipping point that pushed us back weeks on the arbitrator's schedule. Not lying, I apologize, but it's still disingenuous.

400 "brothers" on the street for cheaper labor.

You paint with an awfully broad brush. Bedford wants cheaper labor, the pilot groups at the table do not, so dont confuse the issue. I'm your biggest cheerleader, every time I end up in this discussion I remind the other guy about the 400 Midwest guys who have been screwed the hardest. A couple of my friends are in that number. I think it's horrifying that RAH is hiring in an off-the-street fashion. You've been shafted. Repeatedly. We get that. But FAPA and yes even the IBT are not your enemy.

 

[BORG]

At best skipping the travel day using the video would save one day, compressing 4 days into 3, so you assume that one day difference was the tipping point that pushed us back weeks on the arbitrator's schedule. Not lying, I apologize, but it's still disingenuous

I believe the point that the MEH MEC and CitationLover were trying to make is that the logistics involved with video conferencing are not as challenging as arranging face to face meetings and perhaps the hearing could have been held sooner via videoconferencing.

I'm not saying that FAPA and IBT are intentionally slowing things down, but they sure as hell aren't doing anything to speed it up...

 

[Flying Illini]

Our update indicated the delay is due to FAPA alone. I don't blame FAPA for wanting to pursue what is best for their pilot group, that's their job. This is just part of that process. As for the IBT "delaying" things, a face-to-face meeting only makes sense on something this big.

 

[BORG]

As for the IBT "delaying" things, a face-to-face meeting only makes sense on something this big.

Except that we DO live in the 21st century now and teleconferencing isn't new technology anymore. I've seen footage on tv of criminals being sentenced to long prison sentences and even death by video conferencing. It doesn't get much bigger than that.

 

[Flying Illini]

Except that we DO live in the 21st century now and teleconferencing isn't new technology anymore. I've seen footage on tv of criminals being sentenced to long prison sentences and even death by video conferencing. It doesn't get much bigger than that.

Agreed, it doesn't get much bigger than death.

Maybe we should have done the whole SLI over Skype or gotomeeting. But that doesn't make sense so why do just one meeting over video-conference after we've come all this way in the old-fashioned manner of "in-person?"

Businesses don't close multi-million dollar deals "over the phone" so there's no need to decide the career fates of 3000+ pilots "over the phone." We all wanted it done at the end of May per the original time-line but that didn't happen (did any of us really think it would?). The arbitrator has said that this next meeting is the last meeting so things will wrap up 2.5 months behind schedule. That sucks but it's not a complete surprise and it certainly could have been worse.

 

[CitationLover]

Agreed, it doesn't get much bigger than death.

Maybe we should have done the whole SLI over Skype or gotomeeting. But that doesn't make sense so why do just one meeting over video-conference after we've come all this way in the old-fashioned manner of "in-person?"

Businesses don't close multi-million dollar deals "over the phone" so there's no need to decide the career fates of 3000+ pilots "over the phone." We all wanted it done at the end of May per the original time-line but that didn't happen (did any of us really think it would?). The arbitrator has said that this next meeting is the last meeting so things will wrap up 2.5 months behind schedule. That sucks but it's not a complete surprise and it certainly could have been worse.

FAPA desires the status quo. Any delay in integration keeps itself as an entity still intact. The minute integration comes FAPA's future is in doubt.

The fates of the MAJORITY of the 3000 pilots you speak of CAN ONLY GO UP FROM WHERE THEY WERE originally. Keep flying the 190 cheaply. Pretty soon the C series will be $.40 to the $1.00 of current 737 rates. What a great profession we have.

 

[Flying Illini]

FAPA desires the status quo. Any delay in integration keeps itself as an entity still intact. The minute integration comes FAPA's future is in doubt.

The fates of the MAJORITY of the 3000 pilots you speak of CAN ONLY GO UP FROM WHERE THEY WERE originally. Keep flying the 190 cheaply. Pretty soon the C series will be $.40 to the $1.00 of current 737 rates. What a great profession we have.

I don't fly the 190 cheaply. I fly the 170 cheaply.

No I'm not happy about it. Yes I'm working to change it. No I'm not responsible for your current situation. No I'm not planning to stay here, it will always be a place, regardless of equipment flown, that will be managed by regional airline mgmt.

I assume the majority of the pilots you mention above are the native RAH'ers. I'm not sure how you think their fates can "only go up from where they were." Up in what way? Oooooh, flying an airbus.<sarcasm> I think you should try a different perspective. There are 900 or so FO's at native RAH whose fates will only go DOWN from where we were. That's right. Once all of the CA's are slotted in above us as well as, I'm sure, the majority of the FO's, what happens to our normal regional airline career progression? Put in your time in the right seat, move over to the left for a few years and then get the hell out to a better airline? Just what I always wanted to do, spend 9 years as an FO at a regional airline.

The way I see it, my career "fate" has taken a huge turn for the worse with the acquisition of F9 and YX.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I don't fly the 190 cheaply. I fly the 170 cheaply.

No I'm not happy about it. Yes I'm working to change it. No I'm not responsible for your current situation. No I'm not planning to stay here, it will always be a place, regardless of equipment flown, that will be managed by regional airline mgmt.

I assume the majority of the pilots you mention above are the native RAH'ers. I'm not sure how you think their fates can "only go up from where they were." Up in what way? Oooooh, flying an airbus.<sarcasm> I think you should try a different perspective. There are 900 or so FO's at native RAH whose fates will only go DOWN from where we were. That's right. Once all of the CA's are slotted in above us as well as, I'm sure, the majority of the FO's, what happens to our normal regional airline career progression? Put in your time in the right seat, move over to the left for a few years and then get the hell out to a better airline? Just what I always wanted to do, spend 9 years as an FO at a regional airline.

The way I see it, my career "fate" has taken a huge turn for the worse with the acquisition of F9 and YX.

Oh well,
That chubbie you got from the "guppy killer" , is now a softy, oh well, the tragic irony is classic.
Sorry for your folly
PBR

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

I don't fly the 190 cheaply. I fly the 170 cheaply.

No I'm not happy about it. Yes I'm working to change it. No I'm not responsible for your current situation. No I'm not planning to stay here, it will always be a place, regardless of equipment flown, that will be managed by regional airline mgmt.

I assume the majority of the pilots you mention above are the native RAH'ers. I'm not sure how you think their fates can "only go up from where they were." Up in what way? Oooooh, flying an airbus.<sarcasm> I think you should try a different perspective. There are 900 or so FO's at native RAH whose fates will only go DOWN from where we were. That's right. Once all of the CA's are slotted in above us as well as, I'm sure, the majority of the FO's, what happens to our normal regional airline career progression? Put in your time in the right seat, move over to the left for a few years and then get the hell out to a better airline? Just what I always wanted to do, spend 9 years as an FO at a regional airline.

The way I see it, my career "fate" has taken a huge turn for the worse with the acquisition of F9 and YX.

Mmm, I just burned my tongue.

 

[BORG]

I don't fly the 190 cheaply. I fly the 170 cheaply.

No I'm not happy about it. Yes I'm working to change it. No I'm not responsible for your current situation. No I'm not planning to stay here, it will always be a place, regardless of equipment flown, that will be managed by regional airline mgmt.

I assume the majority of the pilots you mention above are the native RAH'ers. I'm not sure how you think their fates can "only go up from where they were." Up in what way? Oooooh, flying an airbus.<sarcasm> I think you should try a different perspective. There are 900 or so FO's at native RAH whose fates will only go DOWN from where we were. That's right. Once all of the CA's are slotted in above us as well as, I'm sure, the majority of the FO's, what happens to our normal regional airline career progression? Put in your time in the right seat, move over to the left for a few years and then get the hell out to a better airline? Just what I always wanted to do, spend 9 years as an FO at a regional airline.

The way I see it, my career "fate" has taken a huge turn for the worse with the acquisition of F9 and YX.

Dude, I can empathize with you, but are you really comparing your "career 'fate'" to ours? Do you think you've got it so damn bad? What did you expect when you CHOSE to work at the least scrupulous regional in the industry? F9 and YX are the victims here, not you...