For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

[brokeflyer]

please dont make sexual advances towards me on this board.

 

[skanza]

What is the purpose of this thread again?
To share operation-inhibiting ideas with other arm-crossing-breath-holding-union children? Just wondering...

 

[brokeflyer]

What is the purpose of this thread again?
To share operation-inhibiting ideas with other arm-crossing-breath-holding-union children? Just wondering...

no, i think it was sharing safety related issues geard toward preventing accidents and FAR violations.

remember, when omething goes wrong, it's the captain and fo's ass on the line. Not the guy telling you to go fly.

you'll learn this stuff when you become a captain......someday kid.

 

[B19 Flyer]

no, i think it was sharing safety related issues geard toward preventing accidents and FAR violations.

remember, when omething goes wrong, it's the captain and fo's ass on the line. Not the guy telling you to go fly.

you'll learn this stuff when you become a captain......someday kid.

Wrong, this thread began as a list on how to preflight airplanes using methods designed to slow down company operations by noting insignifcant items that would not normally be written up.

Thankfully, the courts have recently caught up with this kind of behavior and are holding unions and individual union members accountable for items like these and "sick outs".

Stuff like this on public message boards is great because it provides evidence in the case of lawsuits and the union has a real tough time explaining it when the injunction is filed.

When the items on this list trend out of line with previous history, it provides the exact supporting documentation needed.

One last thought... it's not just the pilot and f/o flying, it's the entire company. All the pieces need to work for a safe flight from maintenance to fuel to ground service and everything else that happens. Don't be a prima dona because you are a pilot. If the fueler doesn't fuel the airplane, you ain't going anywhere pal..

 

[fischman]

Wrong, this thread began as a list on how to preflight airplanes using methods designed to slow down company operations by noting insignificant items that would not normally be written up. Wrong. This is a thread of professionals sharing safety tips.

Thankfully, the courts have recently caught up with this kind of behavior and are holding unions and individual union members accountable for items like these and "sick outs". Really? Courts have found exchanging safety information illegal??? I missed that.

Stuff like this on public message boards is great because it provides evidence in the case of lawsuits and the union has a real tough time explaining it when the injunction is filed.

When the items on this list trend out of line with previous history, it provides the exact supporting documentation needed.

One last thought... it's not just the pilot and f/o flying, it's the entire company. Bull! So does the entire company DIE because one of these items in a preflight check were missed? No!!! The crew and pax are the only ones with their lives in jeopardy if the appropriate preflight inspection isn't completed. All the pieces need to work for a safe flight from maintenance to fuel to ground service and everything else that happens. Don't be a prima dona because you are a pilot. If the fueler doesn't fuel the airplane, you ain't going anywhere pal..

Your threats of lawsuits against doing a proper preflight inspection is EXACTLY why there are unions like IBT1108 and NJASAP. Keep up the threats. It solidifies my arguments.

 

[Fozzy]

How do you pump fuel again? My car has been high an dry since I pulled it off the lot.
And could someone teach me how to file a flight plan?

 

[skanza]

no, i think it was sharing safety related issues geard toward preventing accidents and FAR violations.

remember, when omething goes wrong, it's the captain and fo's ass on the line. Not the guy telling you to go fly.

you'll learn this stuff when you become a captain......someday kid.

Then: 1. Why are these threads started by pro-union individuals? 2. Why at times when union negotiations are going bad? 3. And why the unmistakable undertone of "this is how we can break airplanes" ?
It seems pretty obvious even to the outsider that is neither pro- nor anti-union that these "preflight" lists are formed to stall the operation and not as a way to share safety information...as you claim.
Another proof is that no one involved in the formation of these lists will share thier identity. They choose to do it while hiding behind a silly username on a message board. If it's so innocent and you want to promote safety, then send an email to all of Beechjet crews with your list! Do it! I know you won't and that's the proof.

 

[brokeflyer]

I can't....I dont fly a beechjet. Thanks to that list I feel confident that I could a good pre-flight.

Dont matter what you think, if it's broke then it's broke. There is nothing on that list that is destructive.

Get a grip on reality and leave the big decsions to the Capt.

 

[dime line]

Then: 1. Why are these threads started by pro-union individuals? 2. Why at times when union negotiations are going bad? 3. And why the unmistakable undertone of "this is how we can break airplanes" ?
It seems pretty obvious even to the outsider that is neither pro- nor anti-union that these "preflight" lists are formed to stall the operation and not as a way to share safety information...as you claim.
Another proof is that no one involved in the formation of these lists will share thier identity. They choose to do it while hiding behind a silly username on a message board. If it's so innocent and you want to promote safety, then send an email to all of Beechjet crews with your list! Do it! I know you won't and that's the proof.

Keep living in fairy land.

 

[skanza]

I can't....I dont fly a beechjet. Thanks to that list I feel confident that I could a good pre-flight. So you get your training from the internet? Nice, Capt.

Dont matter what you think, if it's broke then it's broke. I agree, if it's broke then it's broke. But that's not my point. There is nothing on that list that is destructive. Well that's debatable, but the timing of when one should perform these "safe" preflights is the issue; e.g. -union-pilot not happy with management. -airplane is at a no-mx airport. -

Get a grip on reality and leave the big decsions to the Capt.

You just don't get it. Read my post again. Creating lists to purposely break an aircraft under the disguise of "safety first" is under-handed, crooked and non-professional. Yes, I'm accusing you people of that.
Again with the proof:
Why only create/distribute the list during negotiation struggles?
Why not email it to all the BJ crews from your company email (if safety is your goal)?
These questions cannot be answered with selling yourself out.

 

[skanza]

Keep living in fairy land.

Bayl, that doesn't even make any sense. You obviously didn't read/comprehend the text of my post.

fool

 

[CA1900]

You just don't get it. Read my post again. Creating lists to purposely break an aircraft under the disguise of "safety first" is under-handed, crooked and non-professional. Yes, I'm accusing you people of that.

I just downed a NetJets plane last week for a minor item, at an airport without our maintenance personnel. A strip of emergency exit lights was burned out, and the MEL doesn't give us relief from a whole strip being out. I suppose we could have just ignored it; I mean, after all, what are the odds we'll really need them?

I didn't do it because we're in contract negotiations -- we aren't.

I didn't do it to screw our share owner -- quite the opposite.

I wrote it up because it was broken, and was a required piece of equipment to operate the airplane safely.

Are you suggesting a less-than-thorough preflight, contract negotiations or not?

 

[brokeflyer]

You just don't get it. Read my post again. Creating lists to purposely break an aircraft under the disguise of "safety first" is under-handed, crooked and non-professional. Yes, I'm accusing you people of that.
Again with the proof:
Why only create/distribute the list during negotiation struggles?
Why not email it to all the BJ crews from your company email (if safety is your goal)?
These questions cannot be answered with selling yourself out.

Well you can have your opinion. We'll use our facts. Facts are, if the plane is broke then it is broke, regardless of where or when or by who. If it's broke at the service center, then it's broke at the service center. If it's broke in desertedville, Pa, then that is where it's broke.

We can debate this all day long, but the bottom line is the PIC decides if it's safe, not your opinion.

Ill be glad to go fly a plane with a "questionable" mx problem soon as you walk down to the FAA office in DC and trim just a little bit of fat off the regs.

Until then, we'll continue to do things the safe way.

 

[brokeflyer]

I just downed a NetJets plane last week for a minor item, at an airport without our maintenance personnel. A strip of emergency exit lights was burned out, and the MEL doesn't give us relief from a whole strip being out. I suppose we could have just ignored it; I mean, after all, what are the odds we'll really need them?

I didn't do it because we're in contract negotiations -- we aren't.

I didn't do it to screw our share owner -- quite the opposite.

I wrote it up because it was broken, and was a required piece of equipment to operate the airplane safely.

Are you suggesting a less-than-thorough preflight, contract negotiations or not?

That was the correct thing to do, you need to treat EVERY flight as if the faa is gonna ramp check you.

 

[FR8DOG777]

This just in

Michael $hitfinger to be named CEO of Signature flight support FBO network. May god have mercy on their souls. I am sure he will fix the cost side of things real good over there.