For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

[B19 Flyer]

Thank you for proving my point...

Your point being that you ask stupid questions?

(That being a request to give personal information on a public message board?)

That being stated, you've proven your point.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Stick with the Issues...

Well done, counselor. Have you lobbied for a position in the Obama White House? With your ability to side-step, you would be a shoo-in for Press Secretary.

You gotta stick with the issues, and my personal information has nothing to do with the repeated and long term destruction of the labor forces within the aviation and automotive industries by unions.

 

[ProFracPilot]

...and my personal information has nothing to do with the repeated and long term destruction of the labor forces within the aviation and automotive industries by unions.

This statement may or may not be true. The point is you didn't answer fischman's question. So when you unequivocally state that "I answer the questions", you're lying. But, that is what professional wordsmiths do.

Good day, counselor.

 

[brokeflyer]

Like i said....I think ALL OF YOU need to STFU!

this whole thread needs to die.....along with the other one.

Please Mr. Moderator......make a rules change.....no union or management talk allowed.

 

[fischman]

Your point being that you ask stupid questions?

(That being a request to give personal information on a public message board?)

That being stated, you've proven your point.

It's a simple question. One I am not afraid to answer.

I work at NetJets. Where do you work?

Are you to much of a COWARD to answer?

 

[993_Pilot]

...my personal information...

"Where do you work?", is not a personal question when it doesn't involve your name. The fact is that you are being smart not to give a direct answer. You have already previously stated that you are a manager, and that you "sign the checks", so, if you gave an answer of "Flops", all your posts could be construed as an illegal attempt at union busting... but I'm sure you already knew that !

 

[B19 Flyer]

Judge to slap injunction on United pilots union

HOW TO PRE-FLIGHT A BEECHJET​

1. Power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedestal) needs to be intact not worn downing item
2. Bonding cables under the spoilerons
3. Top of brake calipers for leaks
4. Plastic conduits for wires for the main gear for fraying and damage
5. Hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms)
6. Missing rings/washers on the air stairs, or safety wire, safety wire is not per the BJ MX Manual
7. Nose wheel steering pin for a frayed cable (hazard as it might cut your fingers)(puncture wounds by sharp metal are especially prone to infection)
8. Pitot tubes for worn coating
9. Elevator horn coating (check with control lock installed for more thorough viewing)
10. Door seal channel for damage from door pins
11. Move all pax seats for free movement and locking (check for shoulder harness placards, including the lav seat)
12. All placards (exterior and interior) installed and readable
13. Michelins are installed instead of Goodyear’s, check sidewalls for wear as they are slightly wider and often rub while spinning down in the wells shortly after gear retraction
14. Seat belt extender placards for compatibility with seat belt systems with shoulder harnesses
15. O2 mask microphone function
16. Accumulator window too hazed to see through
17. Broken safety wire on emer gear/door/brake handle
18. Burned out fuel/hyd shutoff valve lights
19. Takeoff pitch trim horn doesn't sound if trim is SLIGHTLY out of the green
20. Takeoff pitch trim horn does sound if trim is BARELY within green.
21. Aileron trims run at different speeds.
22. One aileron trim hesitates partway through full range
23. O2 mask smoke clearing device broken
24. O2 mask weak pressure for inflating halo
25. O2 mask does not stay in cradle.

etc., etc., etc....... blah, blah, blah.....

Like I always say, you guys just keep posting this stuff on public boards and you can just continue to provide evidence of union members taking things into their own hands.

Air carriers are continuing to be successful with court injunctions to stop such behavior.

_____________________

Judge to slap injunction on United pilots union

Associated Press
Wednesday, November 19, 2008
Minneapolis —- A federal judge found that a summer sick-out and work slowdowns by some United Airlines pilots was an illegal job action and said she would issue a preliminary injunction against their union.
United had blamed the sick-outs alone for the cancellation of 329 flights between July 19 and July 27. The nation’s third-largest carrier said that cost it about $8 million in lost revenue and $3.9 million in operating profit.

It also argued that some pilots were carrying more fuel than needed and taking so-called work-to-rule actions, such as refusing to take off in planes with minor mechanical issues that did not require immediate attention under federal rules.
United filed the lawsuit against the union and four individual members on July 30, and announced Monday’s ruling by U.S. District Court Judge Joan H. Lefkow on Tuesday.
The United branch of the Air Line Pilots Association union has been angry over what it says is United’s refusal to reverse concessions they gave in 2003 during United’s bankruptcy reorganization, including 40 percent pay cuts. The union had denied encouraging sick-outs or slowdowns, which are barred by the Railway Labor Act, the labor law governing airline labor relations.
The case required her to parse carefully worded union statements to pilots to figure out whether ALPA leaders were trying to discourage unnecessary use of sick time, as they claimed, or whether they were really sending coded signals to pilots that they should maximize the use of sick time.
It didn’t help that beginning in February the union began including in every update a quote from Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War,” —- that you can fight with a small army as well as a large one, “it is merely a question of instituting signs and signals

 

[brokeflyer]

Yeah if it wasnt for the PIC being responsible for determining if the plane is airworthy, they would probly win that argument.


The sick out seems to be a slam dunk though.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Simply Stupid

Yeah if it wasnt for the PIC being responsible for determining if the plane is airworthy, they would probly win that argument.


The sick out seems to be a slam dunk though.

The point that I'm trying to make here is that companies are no longer just accepting union behavior on these items.

If you read the article, it states that United filed the lawsuit against the union as well as four specific individuals. Obviously, United has been successful in getting the injunction.

Posting lists like this on a public board is simply stupid, all it does is add evidencethat a write-up campaign exists.

To think that FLOPS won't single out individuals is incorrect. Every time these campaigns happen, pilots think they immune right up until the company shows a year of write-up trends and specific pilots that suddenly are trending 50-75% above the others on the exact same aircraft when previous history shows their write ups to be within the normal pilot group.

When that happens, it's a little hard to explain your way out of it.

 

[Hung Start]

There still seems to be a question on the table:

"Mr. B19, who do you work for?"

And just so that does not get caught up in some kind of "I work for the people" kind of answer, how about this:

What is the name of the company that is embossed on your paycheck?

Simple enough.

Hung

 

[fischman]

I can't see how posting a checklist is illegal.It seems to me they are being professionals sharing safety tips. I applaud FLOPS pilots for maintaining a high standard of safety and appearance of the aircraft for their passengers.

Remember, do NOTHING illegal to or for the company.

 

[993_Pilot]

... "Mr. B19, who do you work for?"...

What is the name of the company that is embossed on your paycheck?...

He won't answer for the either for the reason that I listed above in post #126, or (slim possibility) because he doesn't have a dog in this hunt. He will be happy to sit here and yap about the legality of those checklists, but he would never admit that he works at Flops and posts from a Flops computer during work hours. He knows that it is illegal, and if he admitted that, the union would get a court order to check the IP address & node he logged on from, to get the proof, then demand that the company fire him immediately to keep from being in a lawsuit or worse.

...Remember, do NOTHING illegal to or for the company.

Too bad B19 doesn't live by this.

 

[B19 Flyer]

He won't answer for the either for the reason that I listed above in post #126, or (slim possibility) because he doesn't have a dog in this hunt. He will be happy to sit here and yap about the legality of those checklists, but he would never admit that he works at Flops and posts from a Flops computer during work hours. He knows that it is illegal, and if he admitted that, the union would get a court order to check the IP address & node he logged on from, to get the proof, then demand that the company fire him immediately to keep from being in a lawsuit or worse.



Too bad B19 doesn't live by this.

I don't consider that a question. I consider it a request for personal information.

Oh, and the checklists?

I never said they were illegal, I just stated that they are as stupid idea that can be used against the union in a court of law to post on the internet in a public forum.

 

[fischman]

What is the difference in a question and a request for information? Ummmm... NONE!!!!!


It is a simple QUESTION. Why are you so afraid to answer it? What are you afraid of? Have you done something immoral that you don't want others to know about? Are you ashamed of your statements here? This all demonstrates that you are completely UNABLE to answer a question.

We'll try something simple so you can practice.

What comes after the number 1? It is another simple question. Somehow, I doubt you will be able to answer it. We shall see...

 

[993_Pilot]

I don't consider that a question. I consider it a request for personal information...

How about...

Do you work in the fractional industry?

and

Why are you mainly interested about the post pertaining to Flops?

...Oh, and the checklists?

I never said they were illegal, I just stated that they are as stupid idea that can be used against the union in a court of law to post on the internet in a public forum.

The union doesn't advocate doing anything illegal for, or against, the company. How do you prove what are an individuals intentions are, regarding that list. It looks like educational information to me.

 

[GREAT LAKES]

Wow

digging, digging, digging keep them shovels digging..............bury your self and have no one to blame. Have fun working a Walmart! Is it possible to teach commom sense? I guess not. This thread clearly shows it.

Kudos to all the posters that have shown common sense throughout this thread. You know what it's all about.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Get over it and focus on the issues....

What is the difference in a question and a request for information? Ummmm... NONE!!!!!


It is a simple QUESTION. Why are you so afraid to answer it? What are you afraid of? Have you done something immoral that you don't want others to know about? Are you ashamed of your statements here? This all demonstrates that you are completely UNABLE to answer a question.

We'll try something simple so you can practice.

What comes after the number 1? It is another simple question. Somehow, I doubt you will be able to answer it. We shall see...

fischman, we've gone over this subject for three years now. I wish to remain private. It's my choice. Get over it and don't even bother with the subject. From this point on, any post regarding this subject is nothing more than a waste of time for you guys to type it.

The only question I won't respond to is anything that hints to the release of specific personal information that is completely irrelevent to my stand on unions. Get over it.

Let's deal with real issues. Look at the complete turmoil at FLOPS. Those pilots are stuck there now, the industry is basically stagnated and the economy has bit the dust. They ain't gonna get crap out of any CBA at this point because the union didn't act on a timely basis to get it done while times were good.

How long will it be before NJ begins to stutter with the downturn in the economy?

When that industry leading contract begins to be a burdon on NJ, and the new in house union can't adjust quickly enough to save jobs and NJ has no alternative but to begin cuts, I'll be the first one there to point out how I was right about how great unions are when the times are good and how bad they are when the pressure hits and they don't react in time to save the jobs of their brethren while your non-union counterparts are able to adjust to the market and stay viable entities with a minimal amout of turmoil.

Then we'll see just how great unions are, because that is the time when unions are at their worst.

 

[fischman]

What are you afraid of? Why can't you answer? Are you ashamed of yourself? What comes after the number 1?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Focus on the issues...

What are you afraid of? Why can't you answer? Are you ashamed of yourself? What comes after the number 1?

Fischman, how long do you think it will be before the ripple affect occurs? I say it's within the year before YOUR union is pressed to furlough pilots.

My question to you is, when it DOES happen, is your union going to do the right thing to preserve jobs or are the furloughs going to happen to protect the industry leading pay and benefits your union demands?

How strong will that independent union be when the times really get tough?

 

[Freedom]

Given the Agenda of Bob19's Posts'

Is there one true Line Pilot left at Flight Options that does not believe he is being paid to Post as he does?

And by the way, the Blue Color text he uses is scientifically proven to have a more calming effect on the reader; it is a psychological ploy.

Just turn on the Tonight Show with Leno and look for the Blue/Purple background colors.

Bob19 is still trying to Win Hearts and Minds away from the Union, because he knows Solidarity is the only effective tool the Pilots have against Management's Greed.

Freedom in Not Free

 

[fischman]

Fischman, how long do you think it will be before the ripple affect occurs? It already has. Our owner flying is down significantly. Hopefully Mx will use the time to fix the interiors of the airplanes to help maintain the standard our owners have come to expect. I say it's within the year before YOUR union is pressed to furlough pilots. The Union doesn't furlough pilots. The company does.

My question to you is, when it DOES happen, is your union going to do the right thing to preserve jobs or are the furloughs going to happen to protect the industry leading pay and benefits your union demands? The Union and company operate under a contract BOTH parties agreed to. Economic downturns are dealt with IAW the CBA. It is not the Union's responsibility to preserve jobs. It is the Company's. Thankfully NetJets Management has been proactive and in the foreseeable future, we will be alright.

How strong will that independent union be when the times really get tough? We aren't even close to "really tough." The strength in the Union is with the pilots. It will be up to them as the direction the leadership will take, as it always has been.

See how easy it is to answer questions? Now it is your turn.

What company do you work for?

Why are you afraid to tell me?

Are you ashamed of your past?

What comes after the number 1?

ARE YOU CAPABLE OF ACTUALLY ANSWERING A QUESTION?

 

[OldCrow]

Brace,brace,brace!!!

B19, if my time is coming...so is yours

 

[B19 Flyer]

See how easy it is to answer questions? Now it is your turn.

What company do you work for?

Why are you afraid to tell me?

Are you ashamed of your past?

What comes after the number 1?

ARE YOU CAPABLE OF ACTUALLY ANSWERING A QUESTION?

Of course, but are you actually capable of reading an answer (because I've already answered this and I'm not going to do it again)?

So, when the union doesn't protect their pilots when NJ begins the furlough process, who is going to do it? You fischman?

 

[fischman]

Of course, but are you actually capable of reading an answer (because I've already answered this and I'm not going to do it again)?

So, when the union doesn't protect their pilots when NJ begins the furlough process, who is going to do it? That's not what I said. You fischman? Yes. I will protect our pilots as I always have. Unlike you.

I have read through all of your posts on FI.com. You have not answered a single question on these boards. Ever. You can't do it "again" if you never did it once.

Just try 1. I think you'll find it isn't as hard as you think. We'll try an easy one okay? (At least I think it is easy. You might find it more difficult).

What comes after the number 1?

I'll even help you out. If you go to a website called www.google.com you can find the answer.

Can you answer a single question?

 

[B19 Flyer]

I have read through all of your posts on FI.com. You have not answered a single question on these boards. Ever. You can't do it "again" if you never did it once.

Just try 1. I think you'll find it isn't as hard as you think. We'll try an easy one okay? (At least I think it is easy. You might find it more difficult).

What comes after the number 1?

I'll even help you out. If you go to a website called www.google.com you can find the answer.

Can you answer a single question?

fischman...

One is the loneliest number that you'll ever do.

Two can be as bad as one, it's the loneliest number since the number one. :laugh:

Now.. can you say the words "furlough" and "contract concession"? Because it won't be long before your union will be facing them. The amount of furloughed pilots will be in direct proportion to how deep and quickly the contract concessions occur. Can your union react quickly enough to avoid furloughs by offering concessions to "spread the pain" amongst all your brethren and save jobs?

 

[fischman]

fischman...

One is the loneliest number that you'll ever do.

Two can be as bad as one, it's the loneliest number since the number one. :laugh:

Now.. can you say the words "furlough" and "contract concession"? Because it won't be long before your union will be facing them. The amount of furloughed pilots will be in direct proportion to how deep and quickly the contract concessions occur. Can your union react quickly enough to avoid furloughs by offering concessions to "spread the pain" amongst all your brethren and save jobs?

Hmmm.... I think that is an answer. He did use the number 2. Which is a correct answer B19. Good for you! Another answer is 1,000,000 or 3 or 666 (You're familiar with that one aren't you?) :nuts: . They all come after the number 1. I am giving you infinate possibilities of correct numbers.


As to the rest, that is called seniority. If the company needs to furlough, junior guy goes first. That's how the CBA works.

 

[brokeflyer]

Having a union has nothing to do with a furlough, ive said that before. If there was no union, the same guys would get it. Without a union, the company would have to furlough a lot sooner. Management would be totally killing the company and they would have to blame someone for it. That's the whole reason for having a union, to keep managemnt from destroying the company. Otherwise they would be illegal. So they would furlough the pilots, cause they can. Then drive home in their BMW.

That is undisputable.....sorry.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Having a union has nothing to do with a furlough, ive said that before. If there was no union, the same guys would get it. Without a union, the company would have to furlough a lot sooner. Management would be totally killing the company and they would have to blame someone for it. That's the whole reason for having a union, to keep managemnt from destroying the company. Otherwise they would be illegal. So they would furlough the pilots, cause they can. Then drive home in their BMW.

That is undisputable.....sorry.

Not true. It's well known that DAL was able to stave off bankrupty the longest of any legacy carrier because the company was the least unionized major and was able to adjust easier to the industry changes.

In the end, they still got burned by a union that didn't see the value in keeping the company out of bankruptcy.

 

[brokeflyer]

again, like i said, management is the problem there. They had to file for bankruptcy protection after management fried the company so thin you could slide it under a vault door. The union had to come in to protect the pilots.

that is a fact and it is undisputable.....sorry.


next?

 

[fischman]

Not true. It's well known that DAL was able to stave off bankruptcy the longest of any legacy carrier because the company was the least unionized major and was able to adjust easier to the industry changes.

In the end, they still got burned by a union that didn't see the value in keeping the company out of bankruptcy.

When was the last time American declared bankruptcy?