For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

[dime line]

Yes, by the way, I am accusing some people of causing damage to an airplane in order to have a write up. There's no way to prove it, but that doesn't matter. Only those people know the truth and that's all that counts.

There might be some breaking airplanes, and that is just plain wrong, and should be delt with, But Just go out on the line and look at the Freight haulers on the line. One can easily find things that the Feds can see if you are ramped. I have never intentionally broken an airplane, no need for that, again there are plenty of "real" write-ups to go around.

 

[Diesel]

5. Hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms) *ahh yes, the switches. Have you ever seen one leak (and I mean fluid flow out, not seep) enough to cause a dangerous condition? Can you prove it? These thing leak on all Beechjets and everyone knows it, that's why they are on a mx program to inspect these and other things on a regular basis. Some people don't understand that all airplanes leak something.

Skanza this is the most ubsurd statement I've ever seen. Hyd fluid is a corrosive. It does damage to the plane in both the mist form and liquid form. I didn't realize you were a mechanic that can tell me what is a dangerous situation versus a safe situation. Also I've never seen in any turbojet manual that there is "normal seepage or leaking" of hyd fluid acceptable.

Everyone knows it? Can you point out the AD that is issued by the manufacturer that says that the FAA, manufacturer and mx techs are all signing off on this?

Typical BS from someone that doesn't understand the accident chain. Good luck to you. I'd love for you to tell me that there is normal leakage on all airplanes.

PS before you bring it up the GIV RR engines leak like it lost a seal when in fact the manufactures manual and mx manual points out the seals only seal when they are warmed up so there is normal oil drippage.

 

[ProFracPilot]

PS before you bring it up the GIV RR engines leak like it lost a seal when in fact the manufactures manual and mx manual points out the seals only seal when they are warmed up so there is normal oil drippage.

If a Spey or a Tay isn't leaking oil on the ground, there's none in the engine.

 

[Diesel]

Ain't that the friggin truth.

If you're covered with oil you are either flying a radial or a spey/Tay.

 

[skanza]

Ok people. All technical, airworthy, (and spelling) issues aside, nobody has addressed what may main point is, and has been:
Using micro-detailed preflights to break airplanes in the name of union labor negotiations.
Please answer, and don't say it doesn't happen, it does. And don't start talking about Safety, flying legal, and all that sh!t, its just a diversion.
Just address the use of write ups to slow the operation as a scare tactic towards mgnt.

 

[brokeflyer]

Ok people. All technical, airworthy, (and spelling) issues aside, nobody has addressed what may main point is, and has been:
Using micro-detailed preflights to break airplanes in the name of union labor negotiations.
Please answer, and don't say it doesn't happen, it does. And don't start talking about Safety, flying legal, and all that sh!t, its just a diversion.
Just address the use of write ups to slow the operation as a scare tactic towards mgnt.

if its broken then its broken....there is no abiguity at all on that. That list is not a leverage tool at all, as much as management idiots like you want it to be. It is a list of things that need to be checked. PERIOD.

 

[fischman]

Skanza,

This isn't a gray area. I'll write this in caps for you.

IF IT'S BROKE, IT'S BROKE.

Don't do anything illegal for or against the company.

 

[skanza]

I agree, if it's broke, it's broke.
But can you explain why this list was formed and promoted by obvious union supporters with strong undertones of using it for leverage? And why is the list full of things that are either grounding, or will require mx attention that will undoubtebly delay the operation. Why not include things that can easily be MEL'd by the crew and tracked if you're so worried about making these airplanes like new again?
There have been posts here that have even included words like "that will show 'em" and "game on" that clearly show that these people are going to fine-tooth-comb every airplane they're assigned to "in the name of safety", or (and I'm not kidding) carry a write up to 3T6 or somewhere no mx is available. Kinda hypocritical when you talk about not carrying write ups, huh? This cannot be disputed, it happens and you know who you are and what you are.

 

[gunfyter]

Skanka,

when you have money worries its good to sometimes get you mind off your problems. You know, focus on something else for a while ....

It might as well be something constructive that enhances your aviation skills ... like how to do a better prefilight.

Focusing on your professional job skills tends to have the nice side effect of eventually reaping better compensation.

A Win-Win scenario.

 

[brokeflyer]

But can you explain why this list was formed and promoted by obvious union supporters with strong undertones of using it for leverage?

its not.....you don't understand.

when you preflight an airplane and something is not right, then it's the PIC's responsibilty to write it up. You should know that being this far in your career.

I explain one more time. Broke airplanes have nothing to do with a "union" action. If it's broke then it's broke, thats it.

Now move on.

 

[B19 Flyer]

its not.....you don't understand.

when you preflight an airplane and something is not right, then it's the PIC's responsibilty to write it up. You should know that being this far in your career.

I explain one more time. Broke airplanes have nothing to do with a "union" action. If it's broke then it's broke, thats it.

Now move on.

Look, this isn't brain surgery. It's a union ploy that goes back to the beginning of unions.

Take items that have little to no defined standards attached to them and write them up.

The simple action of having a mechanic visit the airplane to see if it's really a problem has accomplished two functions. First, the union member has smuggly made his statement, and he's aggravated a paying customer.

It's not in the name of safety, it's in the name of the union. It's childish, wasteful and unprofessional.

Face it guys, if your union representation at 1108 got it done like you hired them to do, this thread woudn't exist.

But they aren't getting it done, the ecomomy is worsening and the "game" is now just beginning. You are getting exactly what you asked for, and with each passing day everything I said over two years ago is coming true.

 

[brokeflyer]

Look, this isn't brain surgery. It's a union ploy that goes back to the beginning of unions.

Take items that have little to no defined standards attached to them and write them up.

The simple action of having a mechanic visit the airplane to see if it's really a problem has accomplished two functions. First, the union member has smuggly made his statement, and he's aggravated a paying customer.

It's not in the name of safety, it's in the name of the union. It's childish, wasteful and unprofessional.

Face it guys, if your union representation at 1108 got it done like you hired them to do, this thread woudn't exist.

But they aren't getting it done, the ecomomy is worsening and the "game" is now just beginning. You are getting exactly what you asked for, and with each passing day everything I said over two years ago is coming true.

yeah like i said.....broke is broke.

you cant follow instructions either......i said broken is broke now move on.....that is it. there is no grey area, no union ploy. broken planes are broken planes.

now is that clear enough for you?

 

[fischman]

It's not in the name of safety, it's in the name of the union. It's childish, wasteful and unprofessional.

You heard it here folks!!! Flying an airworthy plane is childish.

It takes a REAL MAN to fly a plane with mechanical problems right B19?!?

I bow in the excellence of your awesomeness.:nuts:

 

[fischman]

Why not include things that can easily be MEL'd by the crew and tracked if you're so worried about making these airplanes like new again?

You aren't to bright are you???

Why re-invent the wheel? All items MEL-able are already listed. ON THE MEL!!!!!

 

[brokeflyer]

.

It's not in the name of safety, it's in the name of the union. It's childish, wasteful and unprofessional.

spoken like a true management pro......i bet the FAA would like to hear from you.

 

[LizardEyes]

You can count on Skanza and B19 to see the nefarious union in action. The truth is every avaition manager will put out a memo to all pilots stating that you will without fail write up every discrepancy where and when it occurs. That is apparently a facade for the FAA. In actual practice you find a discrepancy and the maintenence controller is trying to talk you out of writing it up or question your judgement on the MEL or MDL or MEF or ferry flight, et al. Then if you balk the PSM and then the PM and then the Chief Pilot is on the horn telling you how wrong you are and so forth. So you can call it what you will, but management clearly wants us to be professionals and do the job they pay us to do. Namely, ensure that all trips we conduct are done with the utmost attention to detail. I guess where you fly or the way you fly you cut corners to get er done.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You can count on Skanza and B19 to see the nefarious union in action. The truth is every avaition manager will put out a memo to all pilots stating that you will without fail write up every discrepancy where and when it occurs. That is apparently a facade for the FAA. In actual practice you find a discrepancy and the maintenence controller is trying to talk you out of writing it up or question your judgement on the MEL or MDL or MEF or ferry flight, et al. Then if you balk the PSM and then the PM and then the Chief Pilot is on the horn telling you how wrong you are and so forth. So you can call it what you will, but management clearly wants us to be professionals and do the job they pay us to do. Namely, ensure that all trips we conduct are done with the utmost attention to detail. I guess where you fly or the way you fly you cut corners to get er done.

So, how do you define a seepage or drip? There is only one carrier out there that I'm aware of that defines seepages, leaks and drips and it has the blessing of the FAA. It was done because pilots were making their own standards on purpose to slow the airline down.

You guys are beginners at this stuff. This is old time union crap, it's unprofessional, unethical and childlike.

There is a difference between a real problem that justifies a write-up and one that is trumped up just to create a problem.

 

[fischman]

B19,

I draw the line at broke/not broke.

Where do you draw it?

 

[mxpilot2]

.

There is a difference between a real problem that justifies a write-up and one that is trumped up just to create a problem.

I hope you make statements like this with a BJ type rating on your card, otherwise, you are more of a waste of bytes than you have been so far.

They have a guy still working there that was when I worked there six years ago. He tried to make me fly a Hawker I knew was not airworthy. I made a stand against an item he insisted could be flown with. I did it with NO union implications, since it hadn't even become more than an idea 2 of 200 had at the time.

Because they have so many iterations of airplanes, they operate with the MMEL for each type, instead of individual versions for each a/c. Consequently, it was used by management to fly airplanes that were broken and thereby putting people in danger. The item he tried to force me to go with later left a pilot with no flight instruments, other than the peanut gyro. I"ve heard he moved into another program that he didn't even have a type rating for and tried similar trash. And all this from a guy who proported to have an abundance of safety training and experience.

By the way, I have significant training in aviation safety, and what you stand for doesn't make muster in aviation safety program management.

These guys aren't lying about conditions, but you continue to back these unsafe management actions, all under the guise of "bad union". I truly hope you end up having to eat all this drivel you post, and following that, I hope you find yourself out of aviation. There are too many like you in it, and it stinks for those of us trying to make a living in it. And making it to retirement with all of our hair intact seem like an impossible dream.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19,

I draw the line at broke/not broke.

Where do you draw it?

Define your example of a drip, a drop, a seepage and a leak.