For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

dime line

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nuf
And, please add to the list.................don't be shy



HOW TO PRE-FLIGHT A BEECHJET


1. Power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedestal) needs to be intact not worn downing item
2. Bonding cables under the spoilerons
3. Top of brake calipers for leaks
4. Plastic conduits for wires for the main gear for fraying and damage
5. Hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms)
6. Missing rings/washers on the air stairs, or safety wire, safety wire is not per the BJ MX Manual
7. Nose wheel steering pin for a frayed cable (hazard as it might cut your fingers)(puncture wounds by sharp metal are especially prone to infection)
8. Pitot tubes for worn coating
9. Elevator horn coating (check with control lock installed for more thorough viewing)
10. Door seal channel for damage from door pins
11. Move all pax seats for free movement and locking (check for shoulder harness placards, including the lav seat)
12. All placards (exterior and interior) installed and readable
13. Michelins are installed instead of Goodyear’s, check sidewalls for wear as they are slightly wider and often rub while spinning down in the wells shortly after gear retraction
14. Seat belt extender placards for compatibility with seat belt systems with shoulder harnesses
15. O2 mask microphone function
16. Accumulator window too hazed to see through
17. Broken safety wire on emer gear/door/brake handle
18. Burned out fuel/hyd shutoff valve lights
19. Takeoff pitch trim horn doesn't sound if trim is SLIGHTLY out of the green
20. Takeoff pitch trim horn does sound if trim is BARELY within green.
21. Aileron trims run at different speeds.
22. One aileron trim hesitates partway through full range
23. O2 mask smoke clearing device broken
24. O2 mask weak pressure for inflating halo
25. O2 mask does not stay in cradle.
26. Smoke goggles too scratched/dirty to see safely.
27. Smoke goggles cover(s) missing/damaged.
28. Check for slippage on the engine inlet screws
29. Static and pitot drains are closed
30. Fire extinguisher properly charged
31. Cockpit trim indicator agrees w/ trim position marking on vertical stab
32. Cracked static wicks can be hard to spot without a gentle tug
33. Non-LED rear nav lights have a short lifespan
34. Drain holes under horizontal stab are clear
35. bonding cables under the spoilerons
36. Allowed, two degree's of roll per second when selecting flaps 10
37. Missing LED's on the clocks (No IFR)
38. Check the knife valve on the crapper. It is MEL-able, but a real live mechanic must come out and disconnect the electrical
39. Missing screws around the access panels ... found one plane missing 28!!!
40. Feed back from the hand held mikes. It’s a no no
41. Foil coated Fire retardant blankets in the main landing gear wells. Torn, punctured or missing the foil coating? This is a downing item according to QA. Not MDL’able
42. Engage the autopilot prior to doing the stall test. When the stick shaker comes on, it MUST also disconnect the autopilot.
43. Run your elevator trim full down and full up. If the needle pass the RED limit marks ... broke
44. On battery power only, run your rudder trim from full right to left or visa versa. The rudder must have full travel in less than 64 seconds per the mx manual
45. When selecting flaps 30, be sure they indicate 30, not 29 not 31 ... can you tell me what REF is for a flaps 29 or 31 approach
46. Big Dents under the door from stair malfunction. Must be measured with a caliper, That area is pressurized
47. Nose strut bottoming or bouncing on taxi, nose strut to low
48. Main door handle. If it lifts up without pressing the red button your done
49. Cabin door closed, the "Red" markings for the door pins must be "Completely Covered". This is listed in the AFM
50. All of this because, SAFETY, SERVICE, AND PROFITABILITY
 

skyismyoffice

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Thanks for the post Dime Line.

I was recently moved to an aircraft and we found 15 items! Unacceptable!

I think most of us still on the line think this place is going down the tubes but that's no excuse to stop being a professional. I won't fly junk!
 

Mr. Magoo

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There you go Jack A$$. That is the kind of crap that got your little buddies fired.
 

fischman

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????????????????

Looks like the fear tactics are working at FLOPS...:(
 

nerdpilot

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The list is growing of those of you who are not being professional by following company SOP's and FAR's and flying boken, illegal airplanes and flying overtime. This is your chance to really get the company to listen just by flying legally and safely. They cannot afford to lose any more guys. They are hemoraging money daily with all the charters. Ask Sentient how much they love Flight Options. Time to take a stand against this kind of management and send a message to the rest of the industry that pilots do have balls and brains and deserve the respect they put into their profession. Good Luck Flops guys. I hope the laid off guys are doing well.
 

skanza

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here you go again

And, please add to the list.................don't be shy



HOW TO PRE-FLIGHT A BEECHJET


1. Power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedestal) needs to be intact not worn downing item
2. Bonding cables under the spoilerons
3. Top of brake calipers for leaks
4. Plastic conduits for wires for the main gear for fraying and damage
5. Hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms) *ahh yes, the switches. Have you ever seen one leak (and I mean fluid flow out, not seep) enough to cause a dangerous condition? Can you prove it? These thing leak on all Beechjets and everyone knows it, that's why they are on a mx program to inspect these and other things on a regular basis. Some people don't understand that all airplanes leak something.
6. Missing rings/washers on the air stairs, or safety wire, safety wire is not per the BJ MX Manual *easy to remove
7. Nose wheel steering pin for a frayed cable (hazard as it might cut your fingers)(puncture wounds by sharp metal are especially prone to infection)
8. Pitot tubes for worn coating *subjective
9. Elevator horn coating (check with control lock installed for more thorough viewing) * thorough viewing=thorough grounding
10. Door seal channel for damage from door pins * just rotate the door handle and try to close, they'll get torn
11. Move all pax seats for free movement and locking (check for shoulder harness placards, including the lav seat)
12. All placards (exterior and interior) installed and readable *easy to peel off
13. Michelins are installed instead of Goodyear’s, check sidewalls for wear as they are slightly wider and often rub while spinning down in the wells shortly after gear retraction
14. Seat belt extender placards for compatibility with seat belt systems with shoulder harnesses
15. O2 mask microphone function *do you really know how this works?
16. Accumulator window too hazed to see through
17. Broken safety wire on emer gear/door/brake handle *easy to break
18. Burned out fuel/hyd shutoff valve lights *easy to remove
19. Takeoff pitch trim horn doesn't sound if trim is SLIGHTLY out of the green *slightly? so, if it is, the airplane will crash, right? Check to dot on the vertical if you don't trust the gauge.
20. Takeoff pitch trim horn does sound if trim is BARELY within green. *see above
21. Aileron trims run at different speeds.
22. One aileron trim hesitates partway through full range *on what Beechjet don't they? Can you reference a document that says this is not permissible?
23. O2 mask smoke clearing device broken *easy to break
24. O2 mask weak pressure for inflating halo
25. O2 mask does not stay in cradle. *difficult to put in, especially if you don't put much effort into it

Nice, continued...
 

skanza

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...continued

And, please add to the list.................don't be shy



HOW TO PRE-FLIGHT A BEECHJET



26. Smoke goggles too scratched/dirty to see safely.
27. Smoke goggles cover(s) missing/damaged. *easy to damage
28. Check for slippage on the engine inlet screws
29. Static and pitot drains are closed *?
30. Fire extinguisher properly charged
31. Cockpit trim indicator agrees w/ trim position marking on vertical stab
32. Cracked static wicks can be hard to spot without a gentle tug *now that's a blatant "easy to break"
33. Non-LED rear nav lights have a short lifespan
34. Drain holes under horizontal stab are clear
35. bonding cables under the spoilerons
36. Allowed, two degree's of roll per second when selecting flaps 10 *on a preflight? you mean to try it until it fails during you repo for a live leg
37. Missing LED's on the clocks (No IFR)
38. Check the knife valve on the crapper. It is MEL-able, but a real live mechanic must come out and disconnect the electrical *crapper, hehe
39. Missing screws around the access panels ... found one plane missing 28!!!
40. Feed back from the hand held mikes. It’s a no no *yeah, just turn you know what with you know what and get all the feedback you want
41. Foil coated Fire retardant blankets in the main landing gear wells. Torn, punctured or missing the foil coating? This is a downing item according to QA. Not MDL’able *insert pen,...
42. Engage the autopilot prior to doing the stall test. When the stick shaker comes on, it MUST also disconnect the autopilot.
43. Run your elevator trim full down and full up. If the needle pass the RED limit marks ... broke *depends on what angle you're looking from, you know, parrallax error
44. On battery power only, run your rudder trim from full right to left or visa versa. The rudder must have full travel in less than 64 seconds per the mx manual *per the mx manual? you sure? battery only?
45. When selecting flaps 30, be sure they indicate 30, not 29 not 31 ... can you tell me what REF is for a flaps 29 or 31 approach
46. Big Dents under the door from stair malfunction. Must be measured with a caliper, That area is pressurized *yup, just drop the stairs, they'll dent. Oops!
47. Nose strut bottoming or bouncing on taxi, nose strut to low
48. Main door handle. If it lifts up without pressing the red button your done
49. Cabin door closed, the "Red" markings for the door pins must be "Completely Covered". This is listed in the AFM
50. All of this because, SAFETY, SERVICE, AND PROFITABILITY

I guaranty that you did not come up with this list in the interest of flying a a "safe and legal" airplane. You have cherry-picked things that will ground an airplane and not deferrable just to be assigned to another airplane to do the same thing. Some of the items are bull$hit and you know it, but "I just want to follow the law and be safe" is your justification. I see that as an outright abuse of a pilot's authority: to use the preflight of an airplane to find nit-noid things rendering the aircraft grounded as a leveraging tool for a labor agreement rather than to actually ensure the safety of the machine prior to flight. You can disagree with me all you want and keep claiming the safety and legality is behind this, but we all know what you're really doing, including you.
I can't wait to fly with you.
 

ProFracPilot

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I can't wait to fly with you.

I don't break airplanes. I don't need to.

Leaks are subjective. If I find visible hydraulic fluid, I will contact maintenance as they need to make the determination as to the severity of the leak. I'm not qualified nor authorized to make that determination. And I don't believe for a minute that the engineers designed those switches to have a "built in seep". I'm sorry if the airplane chose the most incovenient geographic location to start leaking. Thems the breaks.

Assuming you ever had the esteemed privilege of flying with me, Skumza, you would be guaranteed to be in an airworthy airplane!

You can thank me later :laugh: ;)
 
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FLSTCI

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Hmmm....

Sounds like you're the one coming up with the ideas of dubious legitimacy, Skanza. That fact that these conditions might easily be "induced" by an unscrupulous individual doesn't bear on the reality that, typically, any thorough pilot preflighting his aircraft will likely find a number of these conditions existing. The FAA doesn't make the distinctions you and those who feel the same as you do. In their eyes, if it's a grounding item, it's a grounding item. "Overlooking" them in the interests of expediency and getting the mission done disservices the Owners, who expect to fly safely, the Company, whose operating certificate we put at risk by neglecting our responsibilities as professional pilots, and ourselves...whose "operating certificate" and livelihood we also put at risk.

You believe the items in question to be "nit-noid?" (Hadn't heard that in a while; thanks for the memory!) Take it up with the manufacturer and the Feds who in their wisdom determined them to be non-deferrable and grounding in the first place. It's our job as professional aviators to sweat the details. Like I said...the Owners, the Company and the Feds expect it.
 
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guido411

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I love skanza's comment that "all airplanes leak something". Yup, that Boeing Stearman with the drip pan underneath the engine sure is the workhorse of the fractional fleet these days. I don't fly for Flops anymore but god do I miss the days that mx would tell me the switches had a designed "seep". Make them write that on a 501.

The airplanes that I fly now don't leak ANYTHING (except when the ice melts out of the drawer) because they are not abused and they are well maintained.

Also, I try not to wish harm on most people, but I'm waiting for the day when skanza's airplane has a rapid decompression right when the shoddy O2 mask slips out of the cradle. Hopefully he won't also be on fire and have to look through damaged smoke goggles while trying to use the broken smoke clearing device.

We all know that we have to PLAN FOR THE WORST in this job. Skanza, your cavalier attitude towards safety is disturbing...where do you draw the line as to what's safe and what's not? You don't care about things like O2 masks, do you also not care about taking off over MGTOW? Do you blast off into cloudy skies from KASE because the likelyhood of an engine failure is remote?

I do, however, agree with you on one thing..."crapper" is a funny word!
 

brokeflyer

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I guaranty that you did not come up with this list in the interest of flying a a "safe and legal" airplane. You have cherry-picked things that will ground an airplane and not deferrable just to be assigned to another airplane to do the same thing. Some of the items are bull$hit and you know it, but "I just want to follow the law and be safe" is your justification. I see that as an outright abuse of a pilot's authority: to use the preflight of an airplane to find nit-noid things rendering the aircraft grounded as a leveraging tool for a labor agreement rather than to actually ensure the safety of the machine prior to flight. You can disagree with me all you want and keep claiming the safety and legality is behind this, but we all know what you're really doing, including you.
I can't wait to fly with you.

future chief pilot right there.....its attitudes like yours that CAUSE accidents.

If a plane passes my inspection then it is safe. That is one of the duties of being a PIC.....You'll learn that one day if you get a good IOE instructor.
 
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dime line

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And there you have it folks, FLOPS at its best.

Hey Skumza ever heard of Air Aloha, that measly 6" micro crack on that 737 that blew off the top of that plane. I'm so glad your working at FLOPS, you are the cream of the crop. Job well done.

46. Big Dents under the door from stair malfunction. Must be measured with a caliper, That area is pressurized *yup, just drop the stairs, they'll dent. Oops!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243


"According to the official NTSB report of the investigation, Gayle Yamamoto, a passenger, noticed a crack in the fuselage upon boarding the aircraft prior to the ill-fated flight but did not notify anyone.[1] The crack was located aft of the front port side passenger door. This crack was probably due to metal fatigue related to the 89,090 compression and decompression cycles experienced in the short hop flights by Aloha."
 
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skanza

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And there you have it folks, FLOPS at its best.

Hey Skumza ever heard of Air Aloha, that measly 6" micro crack on that 737 that blew off the top of that plane. I'm so glad your working at FLOPS, you are the cream of the crop. Job well done.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243


"According to the official NTSB report of the investigation, Gayle Yamamoto, a passenger, noticed a crack in the fuselage upon boarding the aircraft prior to the ill-fated flight but did not notify anyone.[1] The crack was located aft of the front port side passenger door. This crack was probably due to metal fatigue related to the 89,090 compression and decompression cycles experienced in the short hop flights by Aloha."

Well Dimebag,
What I meant by the red type was: This is a good way to cause a dent in the fuselage, so you can ground the airplane, so mgnt has to find a charter, so you can make a point about negotiations, etc...
I did not say, nor imply, to fly a broken/dented airplane. I am just showing that this list was formed purely to break airplanes in the name of the union battle.
If anyone here thinks I promote flying un- airworthy equipment, "looking the other way", or (and I hate this one) waiting until you get to a mx base to write it up, you are wrong. Can I be more clear?

Once gain, my problem with this "list" mentality is you use your "preflight" as leverage for labor negotiations. Period.

Don't fly broken airplanes, don't break unbroken airplanes.
 

skanza

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Yes, by the way, I am accusing some people of causing damage to an airplane in order to have a write up. There's no way to prove it, but that doesn't matter. Only those people know the truth and that's all that counts.
 

brokeflyer

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looks like a list for training someone what to look for so they don't have to fly unairworthy airplanes to me.

When you become a PIC you'll learn this stuff. You need to realize that it's OUR ass if something goes wrong.
 

dime line

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Well Dimebag,
What I meant by the red type was: This is a good way to
a dent in the fuselage,
so you can ground the airplane, so mgnt has to find a charter, so you can make a point about negotiations, etc...

So what are you saying here?

I did not say, nor imply, to fly a broken/dented airplane. I am just showing that this list was formed purely to break airplanes in the name of the union battle.
If anyone here thinks I promote flying un- airworthy equipment, "looking the other way", or (and I hate this one) waiting until you get to a mx base to write it up, you are wrong. Can I be more clear?

Hell no your not clear at all. Look at what you wrote above.

Once gain, my problem with this "list" mentality is you use your "preflight" as leverage for labor negotiations. Period.

Don't fly broken airplanes, don't break unbroken airplanes.
Wow I can agree with you for once, what do you think were doing.
Yo Dumb Azz read line 46 again the first TWO words.
The write up means the dent was already there.

Again, Cream of the crop at FLOPS
 
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