Moral sinking at FLOPS

[clickclickboom]

I would acknowledge the point that management got you into this mess and that growth with a disgrunteled pilot group makes things tough.
Still, I go back to the very root of this business when established. It was not supposed to be like Netjets. Maybe that was a mistake but the concept I remember is we are going to do the fractional program at reduced cost. This started with used aircraft of all kinds. There was no go buy a bunch of aircraft from the manufacturer, remarket them for a profit, and keep maintenance costs down.
The whole point of the original scheme was to offer fractional aircraft on the cheap compared to Netjets or Flexjet. When that concept started having some problems it was morphed into something else with Raytheon who could not figure out how to make any money at it either. When Raytheon sold off Hawker, they wanted no part of Flops. On we went to someone else came along to pick the bone and now back to Ricci.
Tell me where along the path there is industry leading anything about this company.
So far, this industry has only one company, Netjets. Everyone else struggles along for a variety of purposes, with none succeeding to any level. I understand you are unhappy that you are not paid what the industry "demands" but the 14 pilots that have been through my office lately are demanding one hell of a lot less.

You are right Flops early business plan was not to be like netjets. The early opinion here was that we could do everything that they could do but better and for up to 40% less.

What that statement doesnt reveal is that in the early growth days of options the fleet plan consisted of the following:

Go out into the market and buy the absolute cheapest version of any airplanes that they could find. The whole underlying goal was that when the fractional shares were sold initial profit was the number #1 goal. Many owners ended up with airplanes that were high time run out rats.

Many of you probably remember that Falcon 50 saga that we took a bath on. ( It was bought sight unseen and had corrosion issues). Our G'IV's were serial number 1 and 2 etc...Yes there were some very nice planes that came on line but it was the exception not the rule.

You cant put a 7000 hour beechjet, Citation III, Or Hawker in fractional service at 1500 hours a year and expect to run a solid operation.

The whole point is that many owners thought the numbers were just great initially but when they were exiting the program the true cost of the program was revealed .

That remind me of a story: I flew a revenue leg into a Texas city that had a service center. We needed an evaporator sock for the apu ( $100 part)

The company needed us to repo to OKC to do an RVSM Flight test so we deferred the APU.

For some reason a Repo back to texas showing ( We assumed it for mx, the sock, or a flight the next day)

After the test we flew back and it was not showing an FBO so I made a decision to taxi to the service center. Called MX and Dispatch and they had no idea why we had a repo back there. Then spoke with MX about the part and they told us they were not authorized to use service centers due to the high cost. I mentioned that the part was in stock and was approx $100 and would take 30 mins of labor to change. He said he would call me back.

10 mins later a repo is showing to APA for MX. We blast off. 2 hours and $8000 later Upon arrival we find out that the company is paying to have the sock flown counter to counter from the service center to APA !!!!! For nearly $1000

I talk to the manager and tell him the story how we just spent $15,000 for a $100 part but all he cared about was that it was friday.Went back out did a good post flight faxed in my 501's and spent the next 3 days using up all of my denver bucks in the restaurant

Made my decision that day that Flops was no longer for me. That is unfortunate because when i first started there 8 years earlier I honestly felt as though I had won the lottery. It was such a great job I just couldnt believe it.

The bottom line is that you guys continue to finance the inefficiencies and mismanagement of this company. Do not let up you deserve better.

 

[skanza]

seek life elswhere skanza.....this board is for fractional pilots to talk about stuff. If we want your opinion we'll give it to you.

go rent a gun a buy a bullet.....

Violence? Why?
And shoot whom with rented gun/purchased bullet?

You'll ask me for my opinion if you want it? This is after all, a forum where everybody posts thier opinion. It's all up for debate. That's the purpose of a forum. But since I don't see the need for a union, my opinion is suddenly not wanted. By what measure? Obviously not from an objective point of view.

Again with the violence, why? Grow up, high school is over.

 

[brokeflyer]

no its your attitude.....i dont care what your views are. But you come in here and "suggest" that we all stop doing pre-flights.

so once again.....seek life elswhere, you attitude is disturbing. call me what you want, i fly safe and that's that. I just hope im never in the air when you are.

 

[skanza]

try again...

no its your attitude.....i dont care what your views are. But you come in here and "suggest" that we all stop doing pre-flights.

so once again.....seek life elswhere, you attitude is disturbing. call me what you want, i fly safe and that's that. I just hope im never in the air when you are.

No, you're wrong. So I'll clarify *again*. I never said "don't preflight". I and simply asking why the level of detail in a preflight changes with the reletive satisfaction (or lack there of) of the union? It's so plain to see by all that breaking green airplanes is used as leverage by union-folks. That is different than outright suggesting a halt to preflights. I would never pass on a preflight becasue my behind is also flying in that airplane. It's that simple! Get it?

No guns or violence please, its not needed.

 

[brokeflyer]

whatever sunshine.......glad you aint in my right seat....

have a nice day.

 

[SilverSurfer]

A Union under no circumstances

Violence? Why?
And shoot whom with rented gun/purchased bullet?

You'll ask me for my opinion if you want it? This is after all, a forum where everybody posts thier opinion. It's all up for debate. That's the purpose of a forum. But since I don't see the need for a union, my opinion is suddenly not wanted. By what measure? Obviously not from an objective point of view.

Again with the violence, why? Grow up, high school is over.

As I stated before, like B19, debate with you is a complete waste of time. You can find no fault with management, nor can you recognize circumstances where a Union is needed. You accused some of us as being narrow minded when in fact it is you looking at Options through a soda straw. You are unwilling to recognize the repeated failures of Options incompetent management. You find fault with pilots expressing their displeasure with management thorough a detailed preflight, yet find no fault with management for the abuses and persecutions of the pilots over the past 5 years.

It is clear that there is no reason to have any exchange with you. It is a complete waste of time.

 

[993_Pilot]

"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
- Mark Twain

 

[skanza]

As I stated before, like B19, debate with you is a complete waste of time. You can find no fault with management, nor can you recognize circumstances where a Union is needed. You accused some of us as being narrow minded when in fact it is you looking at Options through a soda straw. You are unwilling to recognize the repeated failures of Options incompetent management. You find fault with pilots expressing their displeasure with management thorough a detailed preflight, Thank you for being the first one to admit this. Everyone else would dodge to subject, but you owned up to it. Good job. yet find no fault with management for the abuses and persecutions of the pilots over the past 5 years. Well, no. But that's because I need some examples that are equivalent to the "detailed preflight" stunt. No, really. I'll consider them, just share...

It is clear that there is no reason to have any exchange with you. It is a complete waste of time.

But like I keep saying. This is a forum, the purpose is to have an exchange. It would be quite boring and non-informative if a bunch of pro-union fools sat around here stroking each other. Right?

 

[skanza]

"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
- Mark Twain

Nice, that's a good one. Mark Twain said a lot of great things...

"No man that has ever lived has done a thing to please God--primarily. It was done to please himself, then God next."

 

[waka]

But like I keep saying. This is a forum, the purpose is to have an exchange. It would be quite boring and non-informative if a bunch of pro-union fools sat around here stroking each other. Right?

I would venture a guess that you do not make this forum any less boring for anyone and that you induce as many yawns as B19.

As for informative, you definitely do not contribute. Perhaps you're talking about a worthy opposing voice with an intellect and basic powers of observation....that is rarely seen on this forum and is certainly not you or B19. If you and B19 are the only hopes for the anti-union voice, the management to whom you two suck up is in real trouble.