Moral sinking at FLOPS

[SilverSurfer]

Like B19

Don't you see?
And as far as the "list" goes, if you're all so intent that it's just to examine the aorcraft for airworthiness, why does the emphasis on a "quality preflight" only come up when things go sour with the union-management relations? Its so obvious...

That's my point, ******************************-bags.

After reading your post on this board, like B19, I think trying to reason with you is just pi$$ing in the wind, but I have a few comments reference your post.

You are damn right it obvious! Its supposed to be obvious! Its supposed to be obvious to management that the pilots are unhappy with them. When management makes the pilots happy via a signed contract it will be equally obvious that we are happy. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to break the code on this equation.

I don't think the word "quality" is the proper characterization of a pilots preflight choices. A "comprehensive, in depth" preflight vs a "oh I didn't see that" preflight that gets the live leg done or moves the jet to MX. What you don't want to recognize or acknowledge is that this is entirely the crews prerogative and they are completely legal and within their rights. If management wants pilots that are willing to look the other way on occasion then management needs to do what the pilots want, plain and simple. They scratch our back we scratch theirs.

And in the future if you are going to quote anything I post do not insert your assumptive editorial. A pilot choosing to apply the letter of the law is entirely his call and his right. It is not abuse.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Do your job and shut up....

After reading your post on this board, like B19, I think trying to reason with you is just pi$$ing in the wind, but I have a few comments reference your post.

You are damn right it obvious! Its supposed to be obvious! Its supposed to be obvious to management that the pilots are unhappy with them. When management makes the pilots happy via a signed contract it will be equally obvious that we are happy. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to break the code on this equation.

I don't think the word "quality" is the proper characterization of a pilots preflight choices. A "comprehensive, in depth" preflight vs a "oh I didn't see that" preflight that gets the live leg done or moves the jet to MX. What you don't want to recognize or acknowledge is that this is entirely the crews prerogative and they are completely legal and within their rights. If management wants pilots that are willing to look the other way on occasion then management needs to do what the pilots want, plain and simple. They scratch our back we scratch theirs.

And in the future if you are going to quote anything I post do not insert your assumptive editorial. A pilot choosing to apply the letter of the law is entirely his call and his right. It is not abuse.

The problem is, you want a union on the property which makes everybody unhappy, including the pilots. The "letter of the law" as you put it is abuse and interpretive. Historically, courts have backed air carriers before on abusive write-up campaigns and I'm sure they will again in the future.

Promises that can't be kept by the union, and haven't been throughout the negotiations process is the issue. I stated nearly 3 years ago that you would go through 3 years of turmoil, and I'm right on the button in a couple of months.

The union didn't get it done, so you feel you need to play the silly union games that wind up with court injunctions, etc. If 1108 had gotten it done, the whining on this board wouldn't exist, but they haven't.

You blame management, you really need to blame the union for the shortcomings.

If you aren't happy there, leave. What, the industry is shrinking and there isn't anyplace to go? Be thankful you even have a job in this market and shut up. There are lots of pilots that would like to fill your position at any price right now. Get off your egotistical high horse and just get it done.

You need to scratch the back of the people that sign your paycheck, they don't have to give in to your demands and the marketplace will back that up.

The union has done nothing but created turmoil that is going to get worse in the upcoming months, get used to it and simply be thankful that the company even exists at any wage you make.

Do your job.

The "letter of the law" is the individual interpretation of the pilot, and if it's not defined clearly, then it's the company's job to define it. If they don't define it, they will have their lawyers and the court define if for you.

Write up campaigns are not new and are easily dealt with.

In today's ecomomy, the union doesn't have a leg to stand on. Live with it or get a new job. You can be replaced.

 

[brokeflyer]

exacty.....do your job and shut up.....

then send in the MX form....

b19, just keep diggin man. LMFAO!!!

You can never win this argument.....its broke then its broke.

 

[brokeflyer]

You never know, you may have already flown with me, buddy.

So you tell your capt "to shut up and fly"?.....lol

id belive that....I've seen the hiring dept at NJ really screw up and let the "mentally challenged" in.

 

[Publishers]

It is always somewhat amazing when a company is sort of in the toliet swirling around, the unhappy pilot groups answer is let's make our customers even more uncomfortable.
We know we are not an industry leading company anymore, but, we deserve an industry leading contract.
We know the industry is not doing well, but we should.
Why not ask Apen or Jetride, or Pinnacle pilots how they are doing.
I have not seen one post that indicates that the company is back on track, getting aircraft, signiing up new owners, in short becoming a player in the business again.
There cannot be progress on a contract without some progress on the business and I don't see it.

 

[brokeflyer]

It is always somewhat amazing when a company is sort of in the toliet swirling around, the unhappy pilot groups answer is let's make our customers even more uncomfortable.
We know we are not an industry leading company anymore, but, we deserve an industry leading contract.
We know the industry is not doing well, but we should.
Why not ask Apen or Jetride, or Pinnacle pilots how they are doing.
I have not seen one post that indicates that the company is back on track, getting aircraft, signiing up new owners, in short becoming a player in the business again.
There cannot be progress on a contract without some progress on the business and I don't see it.

right on you need a contract.....that's the only way to keep management from butt raping all you guys. Im sure b19 and skanza will say that it's the union drive is whats causing the problems. If the company would'nt try to screw us, there would be no need for labor unions. You tell me the company will pay what your worth WITHOUT a union, RIGHT......wake up. reality here.

 

[waka]

Copied from the list:

1. Power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedestal) needs to be intact not worn downing item

Really? Grounding?

12. All placards (exterior and interior) installed and readable

19. Takeoff pitch trim horn doesn't sound if trim is SLIGHTLY out of the green

That's subjective.

25. O2 mask does not stay in cradle.

Of course, if you rip it out then try to jam it in the cradle carelessly - to ground the airplane. You all know it takes some effort to install these...

29. Static and pitot drains are closed

Unless you fu(k with it, they should stay closed. But if you decide to drain them, a little effort will re-seat the drain.

31. Cockpit trim indicator agrees w/ trim position marking on vertical stab
What? Is there a dot on the indicator? No, its a range.



40. Feed back from the hand held mikes. It’s a no no

Sure, ecpecially if you hold the mic up close to the speaker...on every BJ.
This all just BS in my opinion. But you know they do seem silly...

again;

spineless


buffoon

i.e. the list didn't say anything about; ".....rip it out then try to jam it in the cradle carelessly..."


also add; unsafe and reg breaking pilot

ass kisser/brown noser

 

[waka]

If you aren't happy there, leave. What, the industry is shrinking and there isn't anyplace to go? Be thankful you even have a job in this market and shut up. There are lots of pilots that would like to fill your position at any price right now. Get off your egotistical high horse and just get it done.

Live with it or get a new job. You can be replaced.

With this cowardly attitude (like your late suicidal friend) I'm glad that you lost your medical and are no longer in the ranks of professional pilots. If you were, you would just suck your way up while bringing the profession down. BTW; you're still sucking up and trying to bring the profession down but, at least you're not doing it as a pilot.

 

[SilverSurfer]

It is always somewhat amazing when a company is sort of in the toliet swirling around, the unhappy pilot groups answer is let's make our customers even more uncomfortable.
We know we are not an industry leading company anymore, but, we deserve an industry leading contract.
We know the industry is not doing well, but we should.
Why not ask Apen or Jetride, or Pinnacle pilots how they are doing.
I have not seen one post that indicates that the company is back on track, getting aircraft, signiing up new owners, in short becoming a player in the business again.
There cannot be progress on a contract without some progress on the business and I don't see it.

You are right the economy is down and the company is in the toilet. It took 5 years of sh!ty management to get us to this state and it was the same management that is responsible for a Union being on the property. Had we not had this management we may not be in the swirling toilet and we may not have a union. In their arrogance this past management refused to believe that the actions they were taking were errant or wrong in any way refusing to accept constructive input from the one employmee group that could help or hurt the company the most. A union was inevitable.

Current management is left to deal with the pile of crap Sh!thead and Punjab left them, including the Union. Their choices are simple step up to the plate, finish the contract negotiations or continue to garner the ire of the one group that can sink or save this company.

Unfortunately, there are indications form Riccie and friends that they believe that they can stall the negotiations while he continues his feel good uncle Ken, “I’m your best union steward” bullsh!t. This is all part of a broader plan to undermine union support in hopes of eventual decertification. I do not ever see this being successful. The pilots have gone through too much and fought too hard for our contract, paying a heavy price to date. If management continues on this tact it will only serve to increase the speed that Options goes down the toilet. All the Operators you mention have one thing in common, a very unhappy pilot group. Without the total support of every pilot at Options, we won’t make it.

Kenn, conclude negotiations and sign a contract that our pilots can live with, or reside over Options as the toilet flush takes us under.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I have not seen one post that indicates that the company is back on track, getting aircraft, signiing up new owners, in short becoming a player in the business again.

I HOPE that AIN news alert blog you write for sometimes doesn't know you look for posts on here to get your information! :smash:

All too typical of the laziness found in even the 'legitimate journalism' ranks, so not surprised.

 

[Publishers]

Did not even know I wrote an AIN news alert blog.
By the way, I think owners are the key to this company surviving, not pilots. My point is not to downgrade pilots but to stress the absolute need to get the company moving on the marketing and sales side, to stop further attrition besides what is going ot be lost over the economy. The economic indicators right now suck to use a technical term and it does not bode well for a company that does not have all cylinders running. Paying pilots more is not a solution to the bigger problems.

 

[SilverSurfer]

You don't getit

Did not even know I wrote an AIN news alert blog.
By the way, I think owners are the key to this company surviving, not pilots. My point is not to downgrade pilots but to stress the absolute need to get the company moving on the marketing and sales side, to stop further attrition besides what is going ot be lost over the economy. The economic indicators right now suck to use a technical term and it does not bode well for a company that does not have all cylinders running. Paying pilots more is not a solution to the bigger problems.

More owners are the key to our companies success, goes without question. Where you are missing it is those customers will not stay nor new ones be attracted to a company that is in the throws of a ugly labor dispute. The PILOTS are the most important ingredient toward keeping existing customers, and attracting new ones. If Riccie and company do not settle our negotiation, the dispute rages on, pilots remain unhappy, new customers largely stay away, and existing customers go to other providers when their contracts allow.

We can't control outside factors like the economy but internal problems can be solved. If Riccie allows negotiations to labor on and the pilots dissatisfactions with their job and the company to fester, it will be his fault if we don't survive.

In case you don't know we make half of what the rest of the Fractional industry pilots make. we have far less benefits, we are flying the oldest fleet, and until Riccie came back we had a couple of complete morons running the company. The pilots did not create the dilemma we are in management did. But the pilots are the key to Options solving our problems and making it possible for Options to survive.

"Paying pilots more is not a solution to the bigger problems."

You could not be more wrong. This is the exact solution to our problems and the only thing that will save our company.

 

[993_Pilot]

Well said 'surfer !

 

[skanza]

More owners are the key to our companies success, goes without question. Where you are missing it is those customers will not stay nor new ones be attracted to a company that is in the throws of a ugly labor dispute. The PILOTS are the most important ingredient toward keeping existing customers, and attracting new ones. If Riccie and company do not settle our negotiation, the dispute rages on, pilots remain unhappy, new customers largely stay away, and existing customers go to other providers when their contracts allow.

We can't control outside factors like the economy but internal problems can be solved. If Riccie allows negotiations to labor on and the pilots dissatisfactions with their job and the company to fester, it will be his fault if we don't survive.

In case you don't know we make half of what the rest of the Fractional industry pilots make. we have far less benefits, we are flying the oldest fleet, and until Riccie came back we had a couple of complete morons running the company. The pilots did not create the dilemma we are in management did. But the pilots are the key to Options solving our problems and making it possible for Options to survive.

"Paying pilots more is not a solution to the bigger problems."

You could not be more wrong. This is the exact solution to our problems and the only thing that will save our company.[/quote]

I just wondered where that money is going to come from...

 

[brokeflyer]

seek life elswhere skanza.....this board is for fractional pilots to talk about stuff. If we want your opinion we'll give it to you.

go rent a gun a buy a bullet.....

 

[SilverSurfer]

5 years to think about that

More owners are the key to our companies success, goes without question. Where you are missing it is those customers will not stay nor new ones be attracted to a company that is in the throws of a ugly labor dispute. The PILOTS are the most important ingredient toward keeping existing customers, and attracting new ones. If Riccie and company do not settle our negotiation, the dispute rages on, pilots remain unhappy, new customers largely stay away, and existing customers go to other providers when their contracts allow.

We can't control outside factors like the economy but internal problems can be solved. If Riccie allows negotiations to labor on and the pilots dissatisfactions with their job and the company to fester, it will be his fault if we don't survive.

In case you don't know we make half of what the rest of the Fractional industry pilots make. we have far less benefits, we are flying the oldest fleet, and until Riccie came back we had a couple of complete morons running the company. The pilots did not create the dilemma we are in management did. But the pilots are the key to Options solving our problems and making it possible for Options to survive.

"Paying pilots more is not a solution to the bigger problems."

You could not be more wrong. This is the exact solution to our problems and the only thing that will save our company.[/quote]

I just wondered where that money is going to come from...

Options management and ownership have had 5 years to think about that and construct a plan to pay pilots what the industry demands.

As I stated in a previous post, like B19, your limited scope and mentality make reasoning with you impossible and a complete waste of time. Your assumptions are childish and many of your statements are incoherent dribble regurgitating in one form or another the same anti union bilge.

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

"Paying pilots more is not a solution to the bigger problems."

You could not be more wrong. This is the exact solution to our problems and the only thing that will save our company.[/quote]

I just wondered where that money is going to come from...

Skumza....what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[993_Pilot]

...I just wondered where that money is going to come from...

This ignorant statement shows just exactly just how much you know about business. How about...
...from the re-branding budget?
...from the re-painting the aircraft budget?
...from the Sony Reader budget?
...from the New EFB's budget?
...by charging the customers enough to cover it instead of subsidizing them out of our pockets?
Shall I go on?

There is nothing wrong with owning the "Value Proposition" part of the market, but the employees shouldn't have to subsidize the clients, who are among the wealthiest 1% of the worlds population. If a company can't afford to pay the employees an industry standard wage, then either they are not charging enough for their product or service or they're mismanaging the money, Period. It is up to management to figure out which, but we aren't competing with companies that use Chinese slave labor you know!

 

[Publishers]

I would acknowledge the point that management got you into this mess and that growth with a disgrunteled pilot group makes things tough.
Still, I go back to the very root of this business when established. It was not supposed to be like Netjets. Maybe that was a mistake but the concept I remember is we are going to do the fractional program at reduced cost. This started with used aircraft of all kinds. There was no go buy a bunch of aircraft from the manufacturer, remarket them for a profit, and keep maintenance costs down.
The whole point of the original scheme was to offer fractional aircraft on the cheap compared to Netjets or Flexjet. When that concept started having some problems it was morphed into something else with Raytheon who could not figure out how to make any money at it either. When Raytheon sold off Hawker, they wanted no part of Flops. On we went to someone else came along to pick the bone and now back to Ricci.
Tell me where along the path there is industry leading anything about this company.
So far, this industry has only one company, Netjets. Everyone else struggles along for a variety of purposes, with none succeeding to any level. I understand you are unhappy that you are not paid what the industry "demands" but the 14 pilots that have been through my office lately are demanding one hell of a lot less.

 

[Frac Cap]

Good rebuttal 993, logical and to the point. Skanza, you lose any creditability by saying stuff like that on this board. You will always have people like 993 to make you look stupid and uninformed if you post coments like that. I don't know if you just want to antagonize us, but we already have one B-19 causing trouble and making stupid antagonistic responses, please don't make it two.

The simple fact is, moral will not get back to where the owners deserve it be until we get an industry standard pay. I must admit, my moral came up a bit when we were getting positive change from the new management. But that change has stalled, and we are now getting into yet another holiday season with our 1990's type wages. Our pilots are trying to figure out how to make ends meet with the memory of management telling our owners during the holiday season not to tip their pilots because we are well compensated. I fear that the passengers will see that nothing has changed, late aircraft, broken aircraft, 3 tail number changes before departure, grumpy pilots with a lack of desire to not just go the extra mile, but to just get the job done. They will put their money else where next year I'm sorry to say. Why would they risk it, I wouldn't if I were them. You don't pay all this money to see depressed pilots up front flying your family around, and I fear that is all we will have this holiday season, depressed pilots.

 

[SilverSurfer]

I would acknowledge the point that management got you into this mess and that growth with a disgrunteled pilot group makes things tough.
Still, I go back to the very root of this business when established. It was not supposed to be like Netjets. Maybe that was a mistake but the concept I remember is we are going to do the fractional program at reduced cost. This started with used aircraft of all kinds. There was no go buy a bunch of aircraft from the manufacturer, remarket them for a profit, and keep maintenance costs down.
The whole point of the original scheme was to offer fractional aircraft on the cheap compared to Netjets or Flexjet. When that concept started having some problems it was morphed into something else with Raytheon who could not figure out how to make any money at it either. When Raytheon sold off Hawker, they wanted no part of Flops. On we went to someone else came along to pick the bone and now back to Ricci.
Tell me where along the path there is industry leading anything about this company.
So far, this industry has only one company, Netjets. Everyone else struggles along for a variety of purposes, with none succeeding to any level. I understand you are unhappy that you are not paid what the industry "demands" but the 14 pilots that have been through my office lately are demanding one hell of a lot less.

The Options marketing concept was different form NJ focusing on a “value added” concept offering used aircraft of similar or better capability as the competition but at lower prices. If this concept was not workable or survivable is open to debate. However you contention that the relative value of Options over all service was less than the competition is incorrect. One of Options marketing tags always was that our pilots were as good or better then the competition’s. Additionally, Riccie repeatedly stated that Options pilots were the best in the industry and would maintain the position of highest paid in the industry. The history of the various poor managements that have made up the CGF brain trust have squandered opportunity again and again and compounded this with a poor grasp of this industry. We went for a company that understood and focused on how to cater to the rich and famous, to a corporate mentality bent on modeling Options after a Sh!tbag commuter. This management held the view that we, Options’s pilots, were somehow second rate and treated us that way. Hence the Union.

“Tell me where along the path there is industry leading anything about this company.”

The pilots at Options are industry leading professionals that are worth industry standard wages and benifits. I will put any pilot at Option’s up against any competition pilot any day. What is not industry leading is the management we have had and now the worn out aircraft we operate. I hope that Riccie coming back to Options will remedy both of these industry substandard aspects of our company.

“I understand you are unhappy that you are not paid what the industry "demands" but the 14 pilots that have been through my office lately are demanding one hell of a lot less.”

Unemployed pilots tend to accept far less to keep the family fed then pilots that have been at a company for as long as 12 years. Those 14 pilots will also be the first to leave for greener pastures as soon as they find them. Hopefully these 14 are quality professionals that will do a good job for the substandard wages you want to pay them.

 

[993_Pilot]

...Tell me where along the path there is industry leading anything about this company....

Well, the management sure thinks we are. Almost every press release starts of with:

"CLEVELAND, Ohio (Insert Date Here) Flight Options, a leading provider of safe, reliable and luxurious private air travel services, announced today that. . ."

Click HERE to See them.

 

[Publishers]

"If this concept was not workable or survivable is open to debate. However you contention that the relative value of Options over all service was less than the competition is incorrect."
The trouble is that the first line is the whole point of being in business. If the first part is not workable, survivable, AND profitable, the rest means absolutely nothing.
Marketing tags are exactly that, tags. Would anyone say come fly my company, we have young inexperienced pilots barely out of flight school.
Secondly, does it really matter how "leading professionals that are worth industry standard wages" if you have no cash flow to pay them.
We live in a time where GM today said they were running out of cash.
I guess my concern is that rather than be worried about your industry standard --never have even understood that concept -- I am wondering why you are not concerned that there is going to be a FLOPS at all.

 

[OldCrow]

Its like this

Like my bird dog...he can't tell what is in the food I feed him, however he can tell if he likes it or not (can compair). If he isn't feed, he will not fetch birds,or as well.
I, like my bird dog, don't know why FLOPs can't pay/feed me like the other jet/turbo prop fractionals. But like my specially trained dog, I won't fetch as well either.
Our Boss tells us that we are eating just as well as the other Pilots, and that we should just feel lucky that we even have a dog dish to eat it in. I, again, like my bird fetcher, can compair also.
Just a thought.

 

[jetwash]

Like my bird dog...he can't tell what is in the food I feed him, however he can tell if he likes it or not (can compair). If he isn't feed, he will not fetch birds,or as well.
I, like my bird dog, don't know why FLOPs can't pay/feed me like the other jet/turbo prop fractionals. But like my specially trained dog, I won't fetch as well either.
Our Boss tells us that we are eating just as well as the other Pilots, and that we should just feel lucky that we even have a dog dish to eat it in. I, again, like my bird fetcher, can compair also.
Just a thought.

My wife puts it another way.


You can sweet talk a woman and buy her dinner, but without a commitment (contract) she won't let you get in her pants.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Pay me industry standard

"If this concept was not workable or survivable is open to debate. However you contention that the relative value of Options over all service was less than the competition is incorrect."
The trouble is that the first line is the whole point of being in business. If the first part is not workable, survivable, AND profitable, the rest means absolutely nothing.
Marketing tags are exactly that, tags. Would anyone say come fly my company, we have young inexperienced pilots barely out of flight school.
Secondly, does it really matter how "leading professionals that are worth industry standard wages" if you have no cash flow to pay them.
We live in a time where GM today said they were running out of cash.
I guess my concern is that rather than be worried about your industry standard --never have even understood that concept -- I am wondering why you are not concerned that there is going to be a FLOPS at all.

If the business plan is flawed and can't compete can't survive, shut it down. Survival of the fittest.

If the business plan requires pilots to work for sweat shop wages, to subsidize the company with free labor, shut it down. A company that believes it's employees should accept low wages and just be happy to have a job, begins it's life with a failed business plan, shut it down.

Pay me industry standard or shut it down.

I for one will not accept any excuse for not signing a industry standard contract.

If Options management will not negotiate a industry standard contract, shut it down.

 

[993_Pilot]

A good majority of the pilot group worked here when Mr. Ricci was is charge the first time, and he always said that the would have the highest paid pilots in the industry. I know he remembers this because he mentioned it in his first address to the employees. He seems to be finding money to do other things like painting the entire fleet, so I am confident that he could find the money to pay his employees something similar to the competition. The big question is does he want to, or is he going to play us like "Gordon Gecko" would?

 

[skyismyoffice]

My wife puts it another way.


You can sweet talk a woman and buy her dinner, but without a commitment (contract) she won't let you get in her pants.

I am ready to get in her pants! (the company not your wife)

 

[FR8DOG777]

Welcome to the forum Jonny Ornstein

I would acknowledge the point that management got you into this mess and that growth with a disgrunteled pilot group makes things tough.
Still, I go back to the very root of this business when established. It was not supposed to be like Netjets. Maybe that was a mistake but the concept I remember is we are going to do the fractional program at reduced cost. This started with used aircraft of all kinds. There was no go buy a bunch of aircraft from the manufacturer, remarket them for a profit, and keep maintenance costs down.
The whole point of the original scheme was to offer fractional aircraft on the cheap compared to Netjets or Flexjet. When that concept started having some problems it was morphed into something else with Raytheon who could not figure out how to make any money at it either. When Raytheon sold off Hawker, they wanted no part of Flops. On we went to someone else came along to pick the bone and now back to Ricci.
Tell me where along the path there is industry leading anything about this company.
So far, this industry has only one company, Netjets. Everyone else struggles along for a variety of purposes, with none succeeding to any level. I understand you are unhappy that you are not paid what the industry "demands" but the 14 pilots that have been through my office lately are demanding one hell of a lot less.

I guess you should go ahead and let those fourteen flight instructors fly your cessna 152's for free to build time. It always astounds me how people like you can justify not paying pilots a fair wage. I am sure if we sign a substandard five year contract and the economy gets back on track, they sell the sh!t out of the phenom 300 the company will out of the goodness of their hearts go ahead and share the wealth. The truth of the matter is we have financed one bad management decision after another. The weekly message states we are still a fractional provider, wish to continue selling fractional shares, however not pay our hard working pilots a fractional salary. Pay up or close the doors. Management has had ample time to save up and figure out how they can finance the wages. Like another poster said maybe take a little out of the refurb fund, the repaint fund, or the over paid ceo fund. Either way come up with the money or close the doors.

 

[brokeflyer]

Trying to "do it" cheaper than NJ is why they fail. These people who buy into this want superior service with safety. The truly belive that you get what you pay for. I've spoke to many owners in the past that were all in favor of a price increase to afford to pay us. THEY want us paid well, just like I want my heart surgeon to be paid well.