Moral sinking at FLOPS

[B19 Flyer]

and shareholders... ($$$). (Did I mention something about a carrot instead of a whip?)

Coming from somebody that supports the primary union tool of "strike", I can't take your statement seriously.


Which if treated with respect and dignity would have more of a sense of pride in their company. They would go that extra mile as we have seen at NJA to see it succeed. Instead, as you have witnessed at FLOPS, they get the job done.

You still don't get it.. bringing a union onto the property is the same as kicking the company and all the other employees in the shins and expecting them not to be upset.

..................

 

[993_Pilot]

You still don't get it.. bringing a union onto the property is the same as kicking the company and all the other employees in the shins and expecting them not to be upset.

It doesn't have to be. It all depends on if the company wants to work with us or against us, and we all know what your choice is. Besides, the only reason that there is a union, is because the pilots have been "kicked in the shins" for so long!

 

[B19 Flyer]

It doesn't have to be. It all depends on if the company wants to work with us or against us, and we all know what your choice is. Besides, the only reason that there is a union, is because the pilots have been "kicked in the shins" for so long!

No, you are wrong. If you are an employee that feels like you are being kicked in the shins by the employer, you've chosen the wrong job. Not all employees feel that way and it is wrong for a union to come in and change the way of life of those that are happy, which is exactly what a union does.

If, on the other hand you work for a company and somebody else comes in and kicks you in the shins, then you have a right to fight that entity (union) and eject it from the property.

The union is coming in from the outside and forcing its will on those that don't want it.

 

[dime line]

No, you are wrong. If you are an employee that feels like you are being kicked in the shins by the employer, you've chosen the wrong job. Not all employees feel that way and it is wrong for a union to come in and change the way of life of those that are happy, which is exactly what a union does.

If, on the other hand you work for a company and somebody else comes in and kicks you in the shins, then you have a right to fight that entity (union) and eject it from the property

.

The union is coming in from the outside and forcing its will on those that don't want it.

You mean YOU. We are fighting YOU. YOU are working under a contract, and when we have a contract, YOU will be gone. Good riddence. And then WE can get on to the business of making FLOPS (All of us, not YOU) money.

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

You mean YOU. We are fighting YOU. YOU are working under a contract, and when we have a contract, YOU will be gone. Good riddence. And then WE can get on to the business of making FLOPS (All of us, not YOU) money.

Nicely said Dime..... isn't that what we are doing with the union...fighting what the former regime brought when they came in after KR left the first time? Now WE are just insuring it WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN!

p.s. just who are these "other" "happy" employees as you put it B19? Have MX talked about unionizing at all on property?

 

[brokeflyer]

yawn


yawn


yawn

 

[netjetwife]

Good posts, gentlemen! (That excludes those flinging FUD, of course). I admire you all for standing up for what's right, fighting for your families and the industry. It doesn't matter how much FUD is flung on this board, when professional pilots are hard pressed just to cover the basics you know the situation is wrong. When your peers are paid significantly more for essentially the same job that means your skills and labor are being exploited by management. Facing disrespectful managers together is not only your American right, it is also the only way the hard-working, under-paid Options pilots are going to be able to affect real change. Hang in there!
NJW

 

[993_Pilot]

... If you are an employee that feels like you are being kicked in the shins by the employer, you've chosen the wrong job...

It wasn't that way at the beginning... probably before you were here... I wonder if that is a coincidence???

...If, on the other hand you work for a company and somebody else comes in and kicks you in the shins, then you have a right to fight that entity (union) and eject it from the property...

If there are pilots that don't want to work within a union, then they are now at the wrong company. To take a page from your book, it is they who should go look for another job and start building seniority somewhere else. This union was legally voted in, by the majority of pilots, so why should the majority leave? FYI, you don't have the right to eject us from the property, otherwise MS would have done so long ago. Go study your labor laws.

The union is coming in from the outside and forcing its will on those that don't want it.

Wrong, the union movement was started from the inside! If there are those that don't want it, they are free to leave for another company. In fact, why don't you?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Good posts, gentlemen! (That excludes those flinging FUD, of course). I admire you all for standing up for what's right, fighting for your families and the industry. It doesn't matter how much FUD is flung on this board, when professional pilots are hard pressed just to cover the basics you know the situation is wrong. When your peers are paid significantly more for essentially the same job that means your skills and labor are being exploited by management. Facing disrespectful managers together is not only your American right, it is also the only way the hard-working, under-paid Options pilots are going to be able to affect real change. Hang in there!
NJW

You're still an idiot. Those pilots at FLOPS are being furloughed and you want them to have a CBA that matches the deepest pockets in the industry.

The only thing that is going to save the rest of their jobs in the short term is the lack of a CBA.

When this begins at NJ, which is bound to happen, will your husband and the inhouse union work quickly to lower their industry leading pay to save jobs or will they stand by their pay and watch the bottom of the list be furloughed like always?

Now is the time where unions fail their membership. When times are tough, lets see how many jobs the unions will save vs how many senior pilots maintain their high level of pay.

 

[RNObased]

You're still an idiot. Those pilots at FLOPS are being furloughed and you want them to have a CBA that matches the deepest pockets in the industry.

The only thing that is going to save the rest of their jobs in the short term is the lack of a CBA.

When this begins at NJ, which is bound to happen, will your husband and the inhouse union work quickly to lower their industry leading pay to save jobs or will they stand by their pay and watch the bottom of the list be furloughed like always?

Now is the time where unions fail their membership. When times are tough, lets see how many jobs the unions will save vs how many senior pilots maintain their high level of pay.

You are calling NJW a idiot??? Wow big man, tough talk. NJA is still making money and I don't see how you can call for furloughs. Oh, I forgot you are branching out with your speading of FUD. Why don't you just stick to talking about, what you think you know something about smart guy, stick to FLOPS, idiot!!!!!

 

[fischman]

Name calling is usually the sign of a weak mind.

 

[brokeflyer]

as soon as management takes a pay cut, ill take a pay cut.

otherwise it will never happen.

The amount of money we throw away on just "crap"......our salaries don't even register on the scale yet.

 

[RNObased]

Name calling is usually the sign of a weak mind.

Yeah, but it feels good when it is B19.

 

[gunfyter]

Yeah, but it feels good when it is B19.

I have had 19 on Ignore for a very long time. Trust me, it feels even better.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I have had 19 on Ignore for a very long time. Trust me, it feels even better.

I love a "gunfyter" who will take a shot at me and then put me on ignore to hide from the truth. ​

That's not a gunfyter, it's a sniper.​

 

[B19 Flyer]

You are calling NJW a idiot??? Wow big man, tough talk. NJA is still making money and I don't see how you can call for furloughs. Oh, I forgot you are branching out with your speading of FUD. Why don't you just stick to talking about, what you think you know something about smart guy, stick to FLOPS, idiot!!!!!

No tough talk, just calling it as I see it.

She states what I write is FUD while she is calling for an industry leading contract at FLOPS while they are laying off pilots.

If that's not being an idiot, nothing is.

 

[Freedom]

Actually Bob19...

No tough talk, just calling it as I see it.

She states what I write is FUD while she is calling for an industry leading contract at FLOPS while they are laying off pilots.

If that's not being an idiot, nothing is.

As if you didn't know, the Layoff is nothing more than a Negotiating Tactic.

Cut the bottom quarter off the list, and make the new bottom quarter fear for their Jobs. Then put before them a substandard Contract, that you hope your Fear Tactics taking out their Brothers, will take hold, and they will vote for less than they deserve, for fear that if they do not, the terrorists of Flight Options Management might layoff more in retaliation.

Any novice can set up circumstances to make a desired effect look more desirable.

Can't you come up with something more advanced than this old management strong arm pattern of behavior?

Just a replay in another form of last years Pre Peak Travel Season Management Game.

Last year you Fired 3 Union Committee Chairman within a 3 week period just before Peak Travel. When that didn't have the desired effect, you took out 70 Hostages in 1 day, to try and break the will of the Pilot Group. And when that action was rebuffed by the Threats from Teamsters National to file enough lawsuits to shut you down, you reinstated those Pilots, with back pay. Now a layoff just before Peak Travel to attempt to generate Fear among the Rank and File to "Tow the Line" and turn a blind eye to your desire to run a less than legal operation?

Oh, The Humanity........

Freedom is Not Free

 

[skyismyoffice]

The general consensus I'm getting from the pilot group at FLOPs is that this may be the final chapter. Many are now convinced that FLOPs ain't gonna make it. If this was a 'tactic' I think it was a BAD play!

 

[fly4funcrj]

I am sorry, but I have to disagree.. Given the current economy and the loss of owners from all fracs, I think some of the furloughs were necessary. Do I think that 23% was needed? Probably not... I believe some of those furloughs were "fear factor"..

Either way, it's our guys and gals on the streets, while flops mgmt still makes $$$.. That is sickening..

 

[Capt Spike]

The business

I have been tracking flight activity on flightaware for flight options and netjets. all flying is significantly down. Proportionally, in the past month, FLOPS has been flying about 17-20% of their fleet on average. NJA, about 10-14%. Obviously this data is based on estimated numbers of ac available for each fractional but they are not far off.
Cards are refundable and the money sits on escrow, Fractins are also refundable, minues re-marketing fees. All these contracts are nearly identical so it is not fair to say that only FLOPS is loosing clients. If that was true, then the average of airborne aircraft for NJA would be significantly higher...
I do believe that FLOPS will get a contract, I do not believe that FLOPS will get a NJA contract and truthfully, I doubt that NJA would get their contract if they were doing it so under the actual financial times.
It will be tough times for everyone and I am imensely sensitized by the loss of many of my colleagues.
To them, I wish we are all wrong with our doom and gloom predictions.
Regards
Capt Spike