Moral sinking at FLOPS

[993_Pilot]

Agreed. This is a huge factor of my dislike of unions, the inability to act quickly under pressure forcing the company (no matter which company or type of business it is) to the edge of complete failure.

Yes, god forbid that we should take away the managements ability to subsidize the owners flying out of the pilots wages!

If you had treated the pilots fairly and compensated them similarly to the other companies, you could have avoided the union, and your ability to react to market forces. Management got exactly what they deserved, unionized pilots!

 

[993_Pilot]

Funny you should write that, because in non-union fracs that's exactly what they have time to do.

They aren't playing those silly union games with the unions, those managers are doing what they do best, creating a plan for survival through tough economic times.

Your management however is wasting time by trying to figure out how to create revenue with a bunch of pilots that only want to play union games and jeapordize the remaining financial health of the company.

You mean wasting time by getting on this forum and spreading your FUD... or is spreading FUD part of your job description? You sure seem to post a lot during weekday business hours!

 

[fischman]

You're wasting your time. Really. No one who has read these boards takes B19 or Skanza seriously.

 

[993_Pilot]

You're wasting your time. Really. No one who has read these boards takes B19 or Skanza seriously.

Yeah, I know, but it's cheap entertainment!

 

[fischman]

Fair enough man. B19 was entertaining to me for a while too. It will get old for you.

 

[clickclickboom]

The only yawn here is the pilot that got suckered into the promises of a union 3 years ago and didn't take his career into his own hands to improve it by moving on to a job that better suited them.

Ask those that left FLOPS 3 years ago when they weren't happy and see how they are doing today. They had the courage to take their careers into their own hands and I'm certain they are much better off today than if they had stayed where they weren't happy.

1108 made a promise they DID NOT KEEP. You idiots are still drinking the same koolaide while the ecomomy tanks. You didn't make the change three years ago, now you are stuck with what you have. You asked for it, you got it.

B19 I did leave flops about 3 years ago. Maybe I was the coward or maybe I was smart? That is a judgement that i will not pass as there were and are hundreds of other dedicated Flops crewmembers that just dont have the option to " Just Leave "

People always throw that out there and It just pisses me off. there are so many different variables that go into peoples decision making process. Family, Money, Benefits, Career Expectations.

Pilots shouldnt have to take a job at flops build the company over a decade, realize their career opportunities are about 10 steps below mediocrity due to managements ineptitude and then be forced to finance that managerial failure out of their own pockets.

They deserve to be compensated at least industry average. Industry Average is not 70K a year for a 7 year mid cabin capt

Guys do not let up. You deserve better

If Flops fails it will fail regardless of your contract status. The only difference is that every penny you give away is one more for managment to put in their pockets the day they close the doors.

 

[dime line]

B19 I did leave flops about 3 years ago. Maybe I was the coward or maybe I was smart? That is a judgement that i will not pass as there were and are hundreds of other dedicated Flops crewmembers that just dont have the option to " Just Leave "

People always throw that out there and It just pisses me off. there are so many different variables that go into peoples decision making process. Family, Money, Benefits, Career Expectations.

Pilots shouldnt have to take a job at flops build the company over a decade, realize their career opportunities are about 10 steps below mediocrity due to managements ineptitude and then be forced to finance that managerial failure out of their own pockets.

They deserve to be compensated at least industry average. Industry Average is not 70K a year for a 7 year mid cabin capt

Guys do not let up. You deserve better

If Flops fails it will fail regardless of your contract status. The only difference is that every penny you give away is one more for managment to put in their pockets the day they close the doors.

Dude are you trying to reason with DA19 and the likes?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Fair enough man. B19 was entertaining to me for a while too. It will get old for you.

fischman, I always find you entertaining... :beer:

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 I did leave flops about 3 years ago. Maybe I was the coward or maybe I was smart? That is a judgement that i will not pass as there were and are hundreds of other dedicated Flops crewmembers that just dont have the option to " Just Leave "

People always throw that out there and It just pisses me off. there are so many different variables that go into peoples decision making process. Family, Money, Benefits, Career Expectations.

Pilots shouldnt have to take a job at flops build the company over a decade, realize their career opportunities are about 10 steps below mediocrity due to managements ineptitude and then be forced to finance that managerial failure out of their own pockets.

They deserve to be compensated at least industry average. Industry Average is not 70K a year for a 7 year mid cabin capt

Guys do not let up. You deserve better

If Flops fails it will fail regardless of your contract status. The only difference is that every penny you give away is one more for managment to put in their pockets the day they close the doors.

For whatever reason you left, it's the path you chose, nothing wrong with that.

The simplicity is, for whatever reason you chose to your own way rather than force your will on the rest of the company and owners.

There are other fracs that have given adjustments without unions on the property. One of the common words I use is "stagnate". Once the union is on board, nothing can happen till there is a CBA in place, thus the operative word is "stagnation."

 

[B19 Flyer]

You're wasting your time. Really. No one who has read these boards takes B19 or Skanza seriously.

Fischman, I've stated many times over... this is for entertainment only. It's hard to look at Larry, Moe and Curly and take you seriously too. :laugh:

 

[fischman]

That is where your mistake is. My views are shared by most of the pilots on these boards. You SHOULD take me (us) seriously. Especially since you are in management! Getting a pulse on your employees just MIGHT lead to higher productivity and more profits. The carrot will get you farther than the whip.


But what do I know... I'm just a stupid pilot.

 

[B19 Flyer]

That is where your mistake is. My views are shared by most of the pilots on these boards. You SHOULD take me (us) seriously. Especially since you are in management! Getting a pulse on your employees just MIGHT lead to higher productivity and more profits. The carrot will get you farther than the whip.


But what do I know... I'm just a stupid pilot.

And this is where it's interesting fischman, because my views are exactly that of management, the views of which are rarely seen in print.

The problem is, (and you should take ME just as seriously) that its management who signs the checks because they and they alone are only responsible for the existance of the company which includes the welfare of all the pilots, non pilot employees and owners.

It's the pilots that need to understand that managment is out for the good of the entire company, while the union is only out for the welfare of their own group.

When you open your your eyes and understand "It's not only about the pilots", you begin to understand why negotiations and union interventions are so brutal.

But what do I know.. I only sign the checks.

 

[993_Pilot]

...It's the pilots that need to understand that managment is out for the good of the entire company, while the union is only out for the welfare of their own group...

Yeah, all of management has altruistic motives, tell me another one Pinocchio. We have seen so much evidence of corporate greed in the recent past, that it is ridiculous. Witness Worldcom, Enron, the S&L scandals of the 80's, AIG, The recent mortgage industry collapse. I could go on and on. How many of those managers faired like their employees when they ruined their companies? . . . besides the ones that went to jail, I mean? Most managers are only looking out for the companies to the extent that it will benefit themselves.

 

[skanza]

Yeah, all of management has altruistic motives, tell me another one Pinocchio. We have seen so much evidence of corporate greed in the recent past, that it is ridiculous. Witness Worldcom, Enron, the S&L scandals of the 80's, AIG, The recent mortgage industry collapse. I could go on and on. How many of those managers faired like their employees when they ruined their companies? . . . besides the ones that went to jail, I mean? Most managers are only looking out for the companies to the extent that it will benefit themselves.

Sooo... A union would have helped prevent the problem of those you've listed?
Witness GM, Ford, Chrysler, seems the union was nothing but trouble when it came to sustaining the company (along with buliding garbage products, but thats beside the point..).
It just seems that you bringing up these companies (Worldcom, Enron, etc.) means that a union would have prevented these "evil" managers from doing "evil".
Doubt-it.

 

[skanza]

Fischman, I've stated many times over... this is for entertainment only. It's hard to look at Larry, Moe and Curly and take you seriously too. :laugh:

Or Beavis (Dimeline).

 

[993_Pilot]

Sooo... A union would have helped prevent the problem of those you've listed?
Witness GM, Ford, Chrysler, seems the union was nothing but trouble when it came to sustaining the company (along with buliding garbage products, but thats beside the point..).
It just seems that you bringing up these companies (Worldcom, Enron, etc.) means that a union would have prevented these "evil" managers from doing "evil".
Doubt-it.

I never said that a union would have prevented this... Honestly, where to you get these things? I am simply saying that most management is no less selfish than most unions. Further, I am not willing to put my fate in managements hand unless they would be willing to tie their fate to mine. Since that isn't going to happen, and we don't have golden parachutes, we're looking out for ourselves, and have put our trust in the union. Regardless of what you believe, the pilots are not out to ruin the company, they simply want to be treated with respect, and paid like the professionals that we are... of course B19's answer is for us to quit and change companies. I guess he is saying that he doesn't think Flops will never be a company worth working for long term! ... Nice message to be sending the employees.

 

[brokeflyer]

tihs thread has become pointless.....we want our union and our safety.......b19 and skanza are the exact opposite...fine....time for this thread to die.

we can keep this debate going forever....lets find something else to talk about.

 

[993_Pilot]

tihs thread has become pointless.....we want our union and our safety.......b19 and skanza are the exact opposite...fine....time for this thread to die.

we can keep this debate going forever....lets find something else to talk about.

Sounds good to me. Come up with a new topic and start a new thread. Of course, you know that regardless of the topic, B19 and Skanza will try to turn it in to "why unions are evil", but at least we won't have to wade through 200 posts.

 

[fischman]

And this is where it's interesting fischman, because my views are exactly that of management, the views of which are rarely seen in print.

The problem is, (and you should take ME just as seriously) that its management who signs the checks because they and they alone are only responsible for the existance of the company which includes the welfare of all the pilots, non pilot employees and owners. ...and shareholders... ($$$). (Did I mention something about a carrot instead of a whip?)

It's the pilots that need to understand that managment is out for the good of the entire company, while the union is only out for the welfare of their own group. Which if treated with respect and dignity would have more of a sense of pride in their company. They would go that extra mile as we have seen at NJA to see it succeed. Instead, as you have witnessed at FLOPS, they get the job done.

When you open your your eyes and understand "It's not only about the pilots", you begin to understand why negotiations and union interventions are so brutal.

But what do I know.. I only sign the checks.

It only takes a pen to write checks. It takes passion to make a comapny thrive. With the current management style at FLOPS I am concerned for them.

Look in the mirror. This is what you'll see...

http://images1.comstock.com/Imagewarehouse/TS/SITECS/NLWMCompingVersions/B0010/B0010721/B0010721.jpg

 

[brokeflyer]

yawn





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