Moral sinking at FLOPS

[B19 Flyer]

What I'm getting here is that no progress has been made and the 1108 should move towards the pocess of striking?

For once I agree with you. Management is gonna delay as long as they can so they can run back to the boss with their hands out to say "look daddy, the business is in shambles and we saved you this much money in pilot wages"! Can I have a bonus?

Is that what you are suggesting?

You are saying 1108 has done nothing?

Are they not meeting monthly with the company?

I could almost guess that the foot dragging is on the management side? (Duh, ya think?)

It's business man, the management guys have families and are just trying to make a buck.

I'm glad I'm not in a position to make my living by f-cking over my fellow man.

That just doesn't rest right with me.

But hey! Nothing personal, it's just business!

Stay the course 1108.....

It's been three years... how much longer and how much deeper into the recession do we have to go before you realize that 1108 missed the boat?

For the last couple of years I've been saying that you had 3 years of turmoil ahead and 1108 didn't get it done while they had the best chance when the economy was good?

They failed, pure and simple, now the membership is lulled into thinking they are going to get this great contract the isn't going to and can't happen in today's economic climate.

1108 suckered all of you into thinking they could "close the deal" as fast as they did NJA. Three years and counting, and now there is a pilot pool out there willing and ready to fill your positions in a heartbeat if you strike to feed thier families...

You got what you asked for! Nothing.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Dang B19, seems you know less about bird dogs, than you do about aviation.
I was here long before you showed up, and will be here long after you have been shown the door.

Does Bud know you are tarnishing the name of his plane with pro union garbage?

My bird dogs have been all high performance performers trained by me. I've been a long standing member of NAVHDA and have been working with pointing dogs longer than I've been in aviation. If you have a dog that doesn't want to hunt, then you kept the wrong pup out of the litter and should think about placing him in a home and replacing him with one that wants to hunt.

Just like having a pilot that doesn't want to work. If you have a pilot that doesn't want to work, then you hired the wrong pilot and should think about replacing him too with one that actually wants to fly.

 

[brokeflyer]

blah blah blah.......you win.....now please stop cause your making my ears bleed.

 

[1folinepilot]

Does Bud know you are tarnishing the name of his plane with pro union garbage?

My bird dogs have been all high performance performers trained by me. I've been a long standing member of NAVHDA and have been working with pointing dogs longer than I've been in aviation. If you have a dog that doesn't want to hunt, then you kept the wrong pup out of the litter and should think about placing him in a home and replacing him with one that wants to hunt.

Just like having a pilot that doesn't want to work. If you have a pilot that doesn't want to work, then you hired the wrong pilot and should think about replacing him too with one that actually wants to fly.

The Pilots at Flight Options have allways worked hard and have done their best to hold the place together, the problem is that management has failed to work with the pilots and the rest of their employees thus allowing the place to fail! They have allready replaced Sh!tfinger and Punjab and need to continue with you Bob as well as the rest of the middle managers and corrupt PSM's. While you are at it, take Scumza with you! Flight Options needs managers that want and know how to manage

 

[B19 Flyer]

The Pilots at Flight Options have allways worked hard and have done their best to hold the place together, the problem is that management has failed to work with the pilots and the rest of their employees thus allowing the place to fail! They have allready replaced Sh!tfinger and Punjab and need to continue with you Bob as well as the rest of the middle managers and corrupt PSM's. While you are at it, take Scumza with you! Flight Options needs managers that want and know how to manage

An average bird dog will hunt no matter what he is fed. He doesn't need anything special for motivation.

Pilots come a dime a dozen for corporate aircraft and in today's marketplace they can be replaced just as easily by pilots that want to fly, not play union games.

1108 had their chance when the economy was good and they blew it. Just keep telling yourself how good you and your fellow union mongers are and that the company can't operate without the union.

 

[B19 Flyer]

blah blah blah.......you win.....now please stop cause your making my ears bleed.

If you are reading this post with your ears, it probably explains how 1108 is getting away with jamming their contract promises up the wrong orifice without you noticing it. :laugh:

 

[993_Pilot]

The dog doesn't have the choice of his owner or how you treat him, but I'm sure he still shows up every day and gives 100% regardless of what you feed him.

You however have the choice of an employer. If you don't like what you are getting fed, go someplace where you can get the premium food and stop complaining about it.

Now you're comparing us to Dogs?

 

[brokeflyer]

If you are reading this post with your ears, it probably explains how 1108 is getting away with jamming their contract promises up the wrong orifice without you noticing it. :laugh:

nah i dont work at options.....im at NJ....everything is great.

 

[993_Pilot]

It's been three years... how much longer and how much deeper into the recession do we have to go before you realize that 1108 missed the boat?

For the last couple of years I've been saying that you had 3 years of turmoil ahead and 1108 didn't get it done while they had the best chance when the economy was good?

They failed, pure and simple, now the membership is lulled into thinking they are going to get this great contract the isn't going to and can't happen in today's economic climate.

1108 suckered all of you into thinking they could "close the deal" as fast as they did NJA. Three years and counting, and now there is a pilot pool out there willing and ready to fill your positions in a heartbeat if you strike to feed thier families...

You got what you asked for! Nothing.

Allow me to point out a few errors here. The 1108 was ready and willing to negotiate, however the management lead by MS, was not. It is not the 1108 that has failed us, it is you and the rest of management. Now that MS and most of his crew are gone, we may actually have a chance of getting this done. You are correct about the timing not being so good, but that is not something any of us can control. There is no way the management could bring in a bunch of strike breaking scabs and keep the company viable, because it takes both money and time to get them trained. If the training costs didn't put Flops out of business, the time frame would, from the charter costs alone. Not to mention how many owners would be anxious (or even willing) to fly with the newly hired scabs, after having to cross picket lines? So, next you would probably see a class-action lawsuit by the present Flops owners, for failing to perform to their contracts... Big $$, just to fight it + all the bad press. If that is how you see Flops succeeding, then you better dust off your resume' too!

With all this said, none of us want to see it ever go this far. We just want a contract negotiated in good faith, and done in a reasonable time frame.

Wake up, and get real. This isn't the airlines!

 

[FR8DOG777]

Your'e a complete friggin joke 1.9

Give it up we are tired of hearing your dribble. If we are just a dime a dozen how come the last few hiring campaigns went so well. Flops has the very worst reputaion as an aviation employer bar none. Hell even the line guys know how fckking bad is is to work here. We got rid of that little tyrant trying to replace us all with young unexperienced pilots eager to fly shiny jets. Just what the real people funding our paychecks wanted to see in the cockpit flying them around. We are now in the process of getting rid of you. We will stay and fight for what is rightfully ours, respect, honor and fair pay, things of which you know nothing about.

 

[FR8DOG777]

1108 suckered all of you into thinking they could "close the deal" as fast as they did NJA. Three years and counting, and now there is a pilot pool out there willing and ready to fill your positions in a heartbeat if you strike to feed thier families...

Finally, something you are qualified and knowledgeable about..........SCAB

 

[Semore Butts]

Stay the course 1108!

Then you might as well keep fighting till the company fails.

That way at least you'll know that you jammed it up the a$$ of the management people that have been screwing you.

Just business "Flea 19".

Oh, and it did take us way more then 3 years to get a contract at Netjets.

Stay the course 1108!

 

[skanza]

I would venture a guess that you do not make this forum any less boring for anyone and that you induce as many yawns as B19.

As for informative, you definitely do not contribute. Well, that's subjective. But I and B19 do bring the other side of the argument. Which is essential to being informed. But still, you folks won't acknowledge its existence. Pitty. Perhaps you're talking about a worthy opposing voice with an intellect and basic powers of observation....that is rarely seen on this forum and is certainly not you or B19. If you and B19 are the only hopes for the anti-union voice, the management to whom you two suck up is in real trouble.

Suck up to? No, wrong, we're independent.

 

[brokeflyer]

whatever kid...just glad i dont have to fly with you

 

[skanza]

Allow me to point out a few errors here. The 1108 was ready and willing to negotiate, however the management lead by MS, was not. It is not the 1108 that has failed us, it is you and the rest of management. Now that MS and most of his crew are gone, we may actually have a chance of getting this done. You are correct about the timing not being so good, but that is not something any of us can control. There is no way the management could bring in a bunch of strike breaking scabs and keep the company viable, because it takes both money and time to get them trained. So that's a threat? Wow, it'll take a lot more that the handful of you on this forum to cause a disruption like that. Just keep doing your "Saftey Based" preflights, you'll get weeded out with the rest of the fat. If the training costs didn't put Flops out of business, the time frame would, from the charter costs alone. Not to mention how many owners would be anxious (or even willing) to fly with the newly hired scabs, after having to cross picket lines? So, next you would probably see a class-action lawsuit by the present Flops owners, for failing to perform to their contracts... Big $$, just to fight it + all the bad press. If that is how you see Flops succeeding, then you better dust off your resume' too!

With all this said, none of us want to see it ever go this far. We just want a contract negotiated in good faith, and done in a reasonable time frame.

Wake up, and get real. This isn't the airlines![/quote]

Right, it's not. No union needed. I don't even think the airlines need the union. Look how well that's worked for them, along with GM and the other domestic auto makers.

 

[skanza]

whatever kid...just glad i dont have to fly with you

You'll never know pal.

 

[brokeflyer]

You'll never know pal.

whatever kid.....you'd hate it....cause i write planes up when they're broke.

 

[skanza]

whatever kid.....you'd hate it....cause i write planes up when they're broke.

As you should. Just not when they're not broke (i.e. you're trying to disrupt the operation in the name of the union.)

 

[993_Pilot]

...So that's a threat? Wow, it'll take a lot more that the handful of you on this forum to cause a disruption like that. Just keep doing your "Saftey Based" preflights, you'll get weeded out with the rest of the fat...

Actually, I never made a threat, and I haven't really participated in the "Safety Based" preflight discussion. Simply an observation of how a fraction works compared to an airline. I hope it never gets this far, but when the pilots of an airline goes on strike, the company chops back the schedule as needed until they can get the scabs trained and ready. A fractional can't do that because they don't determine the schedule. We both know they would have to charter aircraft to fly their owners around, Even if only half of the pilots walked out during a strike, and the company planned on staffing to a minimum, it would still take quite a while to train another 100 to 150 pilots. Could the company even find enough charter aircraft? If they could, could they afford to? I don't think they would survive for very long. How many of the present owners would want to continually cross picket lines to fly with Flops? Could you attract any new owners with all the bad press and picket lines? These people aren't flying fractional because it is the cheap way to go. So like said before, Wake up, and get real. This isn't the airlines!

Right, it's not. No union needed. I don't even think the airlines need the union. Look how well that's worked for them, along with GM and the other domestic auto makers.

You can debate whether we need a union all you want, but the fact remains that we have one...by the choice of the majority of the pilots, I might add. Look how well the union works at Southwest. When the management works with the union instead of against it, good things come of it. Why is that so hard for you to accept that? I won't sit here at my keyboard and tell you that everything union is great, but we have already tried it the other way, and look where it got us. Are you really so narrow minded that anything union has to be bad?

 

[skanza]

Actually, I never made a threat, and I haven't really participated in the "Safety Based" preflight discussion. Simply an observation of how a fraction works compared to an airline. I hope it never gets this far, but when the pilots of an airline goes on strike, the company chops back the schedule as needed until they can get the scabs trained and ready. A fractional can't do that because they don't determine the schedule. We both know they would have to charter aircraft to fly their owners around, Even if only half of the pilots walked out during a strike, and the company planned on staffing to a minimum, it would still take quite a while to train another 100 to 150 pilots. Could the company even find enough charter aircraft? Sounds like a strike threat to me! If they could, could they afford to? I don't think they would survive for very long. How many of the present owners would want to continually cross picket lines to fly with Flops? Could you attract any new owners with all the bad press and picket lines? These people aren't flying fractional because it is the cheap way to go. So like said before, Wake up, and get real. This isn't the airlines!



You can debate whether we need a union all you want, but the fact remains that we have one...by the choice of the majority of the pilots, I might add. Look how well the union works at Southwest. When the management works with the union instead of against it, good things come of it. Why is that so hard for you to accept that? I can accept that. But like you said, "this isn't the airlines" and there fore I don't believe a union would work, or is neccessary in corperate aviation. I won't sit here at my keyboard and tell you that everything union is great, but we have already tried it the other way, and look where it got us. Are you really so narrow minded that anything union has to be bad? No, in fact a despise the narrow minded approach. But a lot of things I've seen out of a union are bad.

xoxox